Monday, 30 November 2009
The elections called by the Honduran coup regime on November 29 saw a significant increase in abstention, despite the harsh repression by the military and the police. But the regime has not been able to crush the movement of workers, peasants and youth. On the contrary, they are now more politically aware, better organised and ready to struggle against the oligarchy.
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21 comments:
So you think the US will overtly endorse these gangsters now that they have had their "election"?
The elections called by the Honduran coup regime on November 29 saw a significant increase in abstention, despite the harsh repression by the military and the police.
LOL! More people voted in Honduras yesterday than four years ago. But I guess if your going to lie, you might as well start out with the BIG lie.
Zelaya has no credibility. Zero. Zip. NADA.
Here's my FAVORITE part of your obvious fraud, "Legitimate president Mel Zelaya, from his refuge in the Brazilian embassy, announced that abstention had reached 65% of the electorate."
Indeed he did. But the question is, based upon the timing of his statement, HOW could he possibly have known that?
According to contemporary reports:
"Al momento de cerrar las urnas, Zelaya emitió un comunicado en que sostuvo que con base en información ``estadística, técnica y científica de más de 1.400 puntos en los departamentos que representan el 80% de la población, el abstencionismo oscila en el 65%''
translation - "At the moment the polls closed, Zelaya issued a comminque which offered the following information, "statistically, technically AND scientifically from over 1,400 stations in states that represent 80% of the population, the abstention rate is around 65%."
Note the operative words, "at the moment the polls closed," Mel supposedly already had the results. How would that be even REMOTELY possible? It took the government HOURS to cruch the numbers.
The answer is, he didn't "know" squat. PERIOD. And what international observers verified Zelaya's claims? None.
I hear Zelaya's being offered a job to go work for the IPCC as a climate modelling specialist after he slinks out of the Brazilian embassy next week. Any truth to the rumour?
Larry G: By the initial US reaction to the coup, I would say the US ruling class was split. That accounts for the mixed messages.
At this point, it is up to the Resistance, to determine how it's perceived.
My group talked to a resistance leader on Saturday. The Constitutional Assembly demand will be their main thrust.
FJ: People were bribed or threatened to vote. Government workers will be inspected for purple thumbs. I know there was repression this whole weekend.
A high voter turnout like 65%, makes no sense.
A voter turnout of 65% makes perfect sense. People who live in democracies HATE the intervention of foreign thugs like Hugo Chavez trying to meddle in their internal affairs and who try and dictate to them just who their leaders are. Imagine if the King of England tried to tell a bunch of Americans who THEIR leaders were.... ooops, they tried that once... and FAILED!
Ren-
Come on, this guy Zelaya is obviously a socialist or you wouldn't be promoting and defending him so much. And what's the problem with the vote here anyway? So government workers have been "coerced" into voting. How is the government supposed to know who they voted for, if all they are going by are their purple thumbs. If it's a secret ballot, and there's no reason so far to believe it's not, what's the problem? If the government workers don't like the government they got, they can vote for the other guy as a protest, right? If they vote for the party in power, then they must not have much of a problem with it. And why should they? After all, who signs their paychecks? Why rock the boat?
I find it hard to believe there was coercion of government workers. They would probably have to make sure there are enough ballots to accommodate them. The fucking Democratic Party here in this country sure as hell don't have a problem "coercing" unionized government employees to vote Democratic by threatening their jobs, in a sense, by invoking the specter of government cut-backs and lay-offs if the Republicans win. That's probably the extent of the coercion in Honduras as well, only there if anything it is probably MORE JUSTIFIED for the simple fact the Honduran employees don't have nearly the level of job protection a US government employee has. Wow, talk about twisting the facts to suit an agenda.
But that's the farce, good for nothing except one thing, a good old-fashioned belly laugh. Then it's time for the tragic performance, which is the spectacle of the US government-to be clear, the Obama Administration-acting as though it has a right to make demands of the current LEGITIMATE Honduran government. Oh yeah, sure, they "recognize the results" of the election, but have the temerity to make it clear they expect Zelaya to be included in a shared government. WTF? You know the world has gone to hell in a handbasket when the US, founded on independence and dedicated to the proposition that it should refrain from involvement in foreign intrigues, takes it on itself to make demands as to what kind of government a sovereign nation should have-and who should or should not be included in it. That shit just makes me sick to my stomach.
Does seem that the U.S. got exactly what it wanted.
First an election to give the veneer of respectability and then the election of someone who isn't going to disrupt any of the "trade" policies.
Viva Chiquita !! United Fruit still calling the shots, massah.
...so the peasants in Honduras would be better off if Hugo Chavez or Mel Zelaya were to expropriate the United Fruit Company and allow the workers to be paid by the State???
That's called a non sequitur, duckmeister.
Hugo Chavez doesn't spend all the money he receives from expropriated companies like PDVSA on the peasants or building schools and social infrastructure. He spends the money on MIG fighters, Russian AK-47 factories, and large cash undisclosed political contributions to leftwing presidents like Kirchner, Morales and Noriega.
Hugo's workers get less from Hugo today than they EVER got from the multinationals that once owned them.... when he deigns to pay them at all.
Didn't you ever listen to the words from that song by The Who?
Meet the new boss
Same as the old boss...
Hopefully the mass movement will be able to keep up the pressure and grow. The gangsters cannot suppress the movement ala Pinochet (though they would like to) without further inflaming the rest of Latin American opinion. When the regime is finally brought down it will be a major victory of the people even if Zelaya is a moderate...
Also Mexico is a place that we also have to keep an eye on...
Latin American "officialismo opinion" is proving to be as representative of Latin American "public opinion" as Pravda was to the true sentiments of the people of the former USSR. The mass movement is growing alright, Larry. Venezuela's university-based "white hands" independent student movement grows stronger and stronger every day. Hugo's Socialism of the 21st Century will most likely become pure Free Market Capitalism within another decade.
Four banks in Venezuela failed yesterday and the resulting panic's about to go regional. And once Hugo's cash filled suitcases stop showing in in Executive offices in Ecuador, Argentina, Nicaragua and Bolivia, the Socialist South American ALBA Barter Party will be over. South America will be put up for bankruptcy sale to the highest bidder. The big "Yanqui" money's going to go to develop the new autonmous energy-rich breakaway states in Bolivia, and the hugely rich and undeveloped oil fields Hugo's currently preventing from development in the Orinoco basin beneath Venezuela's "disputed territory" with Guayana.
In fact, if the Columbians weren't tying his army down on its' western flank, Hugo would have invaded his eastern neighbor years ago.
So like Lee before Pickett's charge, enjoy the "highwater mark" of South American socialism, because Zelaya just got shot down at "the angle" and the "Right" has a very highly trained and equipped force sitting in Columbia just waiting for Hugo to bloviate his next phillippic against Uribe on his "Alo Presidente" program live from Miraflores.
FJ-
Don't you get it? Zelaya was, with Hugo's help, trying to conduct a People's Coup. But the Reactionary Forces of the Oppressive Imperialist Capitalistic Land Barons and International Bankers have Subverted the Democratic Process. Now these Asinine Bourgeois Proponents of Class Rule feel they can mercilessly grind down into the dust the worthy aspirations of the Exploited Working Class.
But they will never turn back the Tide of History. Don't count them out yet.
Just give them some time to think up a new Slogan and the Mighty Proletariat will soon be Inspired to Rise Up and fulfill it's Destiny.
Pagan: Zelaya is an accident of history. Hardly a socialist. He tried to initiate some modest reforms, and was overthrown. He agreed to every condition of the lousy Costa Rica Accord.
Your imagination is going wild. Chavez has little to do with this.
It does show permanent revolution to be correct. In a semi-colonial country, the capitalist class is too weak to carry out even small reforms.
FJ: Chavez's main danger comes from Bolivarians. The peoople around him are the biggest danger to socialism.
Chavez is vulnerable, if he doesn't go beyond rhetoric. He will take a hit next elections. Not because of people wanting capitalism. His opponent I predict will be General Baduel, who wrote the introduction to 21st Century Socialism.
Larry: The Resistance supported a candidate named Reyes, who dropped out.
We talked via SKYPE to a resistance leader. The Constitutional Assembly will be their main push. Zelaya can't run for office anymore.
Chavez has little to do with this.
To believe that, you'd have to believe that he has little to do with ALBA, and could care less if Honduras drops out.
ps - Pagan. Yep... All they need is a new slogan.
pps - The day they try and convene a "constitutional assembly" in the US is the day you'll find me on a hill shooting at southbound cars heading towards DC on I-95.
re:The Photo.
You Wont See That On Obama's because he's washed his hands already!
Ren, The greatest opposition to Socialism and Communism has always come from the Proletariate which Marx never understood. He didn't understand how a man can work long hours every day for a pittance and enjoy life more than he, himself.
The Proletariate always wants to better itself. And Socialism and Communism and Unionism are ways of the Aristocracy, not the Bourgeois, to keep the "common man" in his place. Constantly pitting the business owner against the worker.
The true evil is the lifelong politician, the "Lords", the Aristocracy: born into wealth, priviledge, and power: The "Lenins" and Marxs" of the world.
FJ: The Honduran constitution was written by a military dictatorship, assisted by Negroponte. Nothing to do with the US.
ALBA is by no means a monolith.
The election results have not been finalized yet.
Tony: Most voters have a marked middle finger in Honduras.
Tragedy 101: I don't understand what you are saying.
Marx and Lenin are more complicated than that. Read State and Revolution by Lenin. He is hardly a lord.
You're talking in abstractions.
FJ: The Honduran constitution was written by a military dictatorship, assisted by Negroponte. Nothing to do with the US.
There is NOTHING unreasonable in a Constitution, even had it been written by the devil himself, that limits the Executive to a single term. NOTHING.
This is ALL about Mel keeping the presidency so he can keep Honduras in ALBA. Hugo's trying to build ALBA into a Defensive Alliance like NATO or the Warsaw pact. In fact, Venezuela's military just announced joint maneuvers w/Nicaragua next year.
It's Left-caudilloism, pure and simple.
Honduras Constitution was developed with the specific intention of preventing the rise of YET ANOTHER Centraql American caudillo, be he/she from the Right OR Left.
Besides, since being written in 1982, the National Congress of Honduras made 26 amendments (ratified in 1984, 1986, 1987 (twice), 1988 (twice), 1990, 1991, 1995 (twice), 1996, 1998, 1999 (three times), 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003 (four times), 2004 (twice) and 2005 (twice)) and 10 interpretations from 1982 to 2005.
So it doesn't matter how you characterize the author's of Honduras' original Constitution, Mel could have proposed to do just about any change he wanted under the Constitution EXCEPT becoming Honduras "permanent leader" ala Chavez.... only Mel wasn't couln't remain a member in good standing in the Caracas Caudillo Club (CCC - aka-ALBA) UNLESS he could change Honduran Constitution, something he FAILED to do legally, so he attempted to do illegally (and got called, caught and then canned for it).
Half of the comments from one person?
Oh dear.
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