Thursday, 05 February 2009
Swat is one of the most beautiful valleys of Pakistan but today it is being ravaged by the barbarism of fanatics decrying the rottenness of a decaying capitalist system. Today the Taliban are governing this beautiful valley. Sections of the Pakistan Army under the guise of a military operation against them are in fact supporting this fundamentalist reaction. On top of this, the aggression of the imperialist forces in the name of the so-called "war on terror" propels these forces further.
Map of the North-Western Frontier Province in Pakistan with Swat highlighted. Made by Pahari Sahib.
The beautiful valley of Swat, which was a few years back a tourist's paradise with its eye-catching landscapes, is now a haven for criminal gangsters joining the Taliban forces. In Lower Swat one can see terraced fields, startlingly green rice paddies, abundant fruit orchards, and views of snow-capped peaks. In Upper Swat the river narrows into turbulent gorges, the mountains tower above and pine forests cling defiantly to the slopes. It is an excellent place for fishing and climbing. For the historian and amateur archaeologist it has several thousand archaeological sites spanning 5,000 years of history waiting to be explored. The other side of the picture, however, is the fact that the 1.7 million population of this picturesque valley is living a life of hell. Nearly 700,000 have emigrated to other places or have been forced to move away.
The Taliban forces led by Fazlullah are imposing the most barbaric laws on the local people and are slaughtering the innocents for not obeying their obscurantist orders. Fear reigns supreme. The Islamic militants have banned girls' education, forced women indoors and have resorted to murder to enforce their version of Islam.
The Green Chowk (Crossing) in Mingora, which is the main city in the valley is now called the Zibah khana Chowk (Slaughter Crossing) as one or two slaughtered bodies of innocent people of the valley are hanged their daily from an electricity pole. A note accompanies the body which says that whoever dares remove the body before sunset will get the same treatment.
Fundamentalist forces are terrorising the beutiful valley of Swat. Photo by Scott Christian.
These Islamic fundamentalists regularly blast government girls' schools and shops which sell Audio and Video CD's. Also the barbers are slaughtered if they shave anybody in the valley. Many other similar barbaric acts take place every other day.
According to the Dawn of February 3, 2009: "The journey upwards from Mardan these days is forbidding. The entire route is a picture of utter desolation. Fear of the unknown has overtaken a place fabled for its fertile fields and majestic mountains. Even a flying visit is enough to fill one with a sense of foreboding that religious extremists would overrun the valley before long. Most people, especially those living in urban areas, seem to have lost the will to live."
The Pakistan Army has started an operation named "Rah-i-Haq" against the Taliban forces, but in actual fact it is aimed against the civilian population and is giving strength to these forces of black reaction. This operation was launched on July 29, 2007. At the launching of this operation the spokesperson of Pakistan Army Brigadier Javed Nasir had said that there are only 700 to 800 Taliban in the Valley and that they could easily handle them.
Now the Operation is in its third phase with two full divisions of the Pakistan Army, the 17th and 37th, in the Valley and yet the conflict is nowhere near an end. According to a conversation with a reporter of Aaj TV in Batkhela, the presence of 45,000 army personnel in the valley would be more than enough to handle the less than 1000 Taliban fighters. The Army is using Gunship helicopters, heavy artillery and mortar guns. But still the Taliban are holding the key areas in the Valley.
The main leader of these fundamentalists, Maulana Fazlullah, systematically uses FM Radios to convey his orders and sermons to the people of the Valley. Four FM Radio channels are being run in separate areas in which messages of the Maulana are conveyed by his deputies. Separate broadcasts are being aired for the Malakand and Shamozai, Matta and Khawaza Khela areas in Swat.
Taliban forces in Swat are imposing taxes on local traders and businessmen. Photo by Scott Christian.
Despite the presence of the Army, the Taliban are spreading their message in the same way as they did, and still do, in Swat. The medium of the message is fear. In fact, fear itself is the message.
In Malakand Shah Dauran a deputy of Fazlullah can be heard in the evenings from around 8.30pm to 11.00pm. In his broadcast Shah Dauran first points out various people in the area who are not obeying obscurantist Islamic laws and announces punishments for them. These punishments are carried out the very next day which include death. Then he announces the names of those who have confessed their mistakes and have come back to the "right" path. In the end there is a segment of "Good News" in which news of bomb blasts and suicide attacks on various places is given. The programme ends with songs of holy war. Shah Dauran has also given his mobile phone numbers where he can be reached and complaints can be placed.
The transmission of radio channels, the continuous supply of arms, ammunition and strategic support for the Taliban and their minimal losses clearly show that sections of the Pakistan Army and Intelligence agencies have no intention of curbing this savagery, rather they support them by all means.
According to newspaper reports, so far 207 Islamic fundamentalist militants have been killed while 325 security personnel and 2000 civilians have lost their lives. According to the Dawn newspaper, "The Maulana's followers hold sway over no less than 80 percent of the Swat valley."
Taliban forces in Swat are also imposing taxes on local traders and businessmen and are operating their own courts. Also mobile companies are paying Rs 30,000 (US$400) per month for each mobile tower in the valley to the Taliban for security. The civilian population is also being charged taxes in the form of cash payments or in the form of arms.
These Taliban forces are actually local criminal elements who have been sponsored by the ISI (Pakistani secret services) and the American CIA to disguise themselves as fundamentalists and ravage this beautiful area only to threaten the workers and peasants of Pushtoonkhwa and curb any form of resistance against this exploitative system. Also this area has become a safe haven for criminals of the whole region and they are coming in big numbers to take their share of the plunder.
The main leader of the fundamentalists, Maulana Fazlullah, systematically uses radio broadcasts to convey his orders and sermons to the people of the Valley. Photo by salimswati.
According to the local people most of these are seasoned kidnappers, car lifters and dacoits who are now part of the Taliban forces. One of the commanders of Fazlullah in Swat is Rahimdad, alias Kuch, who was a famous inter-provincial car thief a few years back.
It has been reported that when a Union Council Administrator in Dheri, Malakand, Ahmed Hussain Khan went to Swat for some personal reasons he met there with Bacha who has been known as a hardened criminal in the area and been to jail in Batkhela several times. Ahmed Hussein Khan told the press that Bacha told him that he is now really enjoying things more since becoming a part of the Taliban. He reportedly gave Khan US$12,000 and some jewellery to handover to Bacha's brother. Also these criminals are deeply involved in drug trade.
It is common knowledge that the secret service agencies like the ISI are deeply involved in the methods, strategy and planning of these fundamentalist forces. Apparently all this destruction of homes, schools, shops and the imposing of reactionary laws may seem as utter madness and yet there is a method in this madness. These forces are trying their best to gather support of the primitive layers of society to propel their agenda further and move forward into the urbanized areas. They seldom attack petty criminals like pickpockets, robbers and brothel houses, so as to gain the sympathy of these primitive layers. But the indignation of the common people towards these hardened criminals is increasing every day.
These reactionary fundamentalists are trying their best to destroy the centuries old cultural and aesthetic aspects of this society. One beautiful aspect of this culture is the classical folk dance which is performed at weddings and other cultural ceremonies. The artists living in the valley are renowned all over the region and have been associated with this profession for many generations. The most famous of all these artistes are from Bhand Mohalla (artistes locality) in Mingora city where not only dancers but also musicians have been living for centuries. The Taliban not only have destroyed this locality but they have also slaughtered Shabnam, a famous dancer. She was popular with men and women alike. Four other dancers were also killed. Now most of the dancers and musicians have migrated to Karachi and other cities and are living a terrible life. The barbarism in Swat is spilling over into the neighbouring areas, especially Malakand which is a gateway to the whole region.
The Malakand agency lies at a strategically important position as it acts as a gateway to Swat, Dir, Chitral and Bajaur. It is in the Lower Swat region amidst high mountains thick with evergreen olive and pine trees. It stands at the exit of a pass known as the Malakand Pass or Darrah Malakand.
The Taliban have threatened the official courts in Batkhela, the main city of Malakand, demanding they stop their functioning within 15 days. Also army check points are starting to appear on the main road, which actually heralds the onslaught of Taliban forces.
CD shop owners are being threatened and orders are being announced from FM radio to obey the orders of the Taliban or face dire consequences. The sporadic killing of innocent people and barbaric acts of intimidating women are already taking place in the area. Lawyers have been warned not to appear in court and that "Whoever will appear before court will be our enemy". Already they have set up 73 Sharia courts to administer "speedy justice". These courts summon people by phone, threatening violators with death.
Madrassahs
Madrassahs are mushrooming these days in every nook and corner of Swat and Malakand where poor people send their children to study. These Madrassahs became a source of income in the period of the Afghan Jihad (against Soviet forces) when millions of dollars were pumped in by the American government. These dollars are still coming in, mainly through the drug trade and other criminal activities. Hundreds of children are being sent there by parents who cannot afford the food and clothing of these children. These Madrassahs are being used by the ISI to recruit suicide bombers.
The suicide bombers from these Madrassahs are also now being used to sell services to those who can pay hefty amounts to settle their personal disputes. One such bomber was used in the Bhakkar bomb blast in South Punjab to settle a personal score by a local who had bought this suicide bomber for 12 million rupees. According to some local people some suicide bombers are also instructed to blow them up as a trial for prospective buyers!
Madrassahs, where poor families send their children, are being used by the secret service to recruit suicide bombers. Photo by *Muhammad* on Flickr.
This "industry" of terrorism has been flourishing quite rapidly since the 'War on Terrorism' was started by the Bush administration in America. The sale of arms and suicide bomber jackets is helping to expand this "industry" and new methods are being developed to increase the sales of various forms of terror.
Drone attacks by American and NATO forces in the Tribal areas are aggravating this war and are keeping the sale of bombs, fighter planes and drones growing. A Station Headquarter Officer in Malakand has claimed in the press that "if given a chance I can end the rein of the Taliban of Swat in one week, otherwise I may be hanged".
With the rottenness of capitalist system and a crisis-ridden economy, the multinationals and industrialists in Pakistan may use these forces as a threat to curb workers' rights and to threaten them if they dare hold any protests. In Swat and the adjacent areas, political activities are almost banned and the activists of left political parties are being targeted. Some have been killed and others have migrated to Islamabad or Peshawar.
No mainstream political party has any agenda or solution to this conflict and they are all capitulating, though reluctantly, to these forces. One of the main reasons for this is their compromise with this rotten capitalist system and their slavish attitude to the Army generals and the imperialist masters.
The ANP, the Pushtoon nationalist party, is currently in power in Pushtoonkhwa, along with the PPP as a coalition partner. Also in the Federal government both are collaborating with each other, along with the Islamic fundamentalist party JUI-F. Neither the PPP nor the ANP can offer a way out of this crisis which is a threat to humanity itself; rather they are proposing various ways of compromise with these reactionary forces. In Malakand, which is traditionally a stronghold of the PPP, all the MPs elected in the elections last year have fled from the area.
The only force that is giving not only resistance to this dogmatic force but also offering a solution, are the comrades of the IMT in Pushtoonkhwa. Working in the most perilous conditions, they are patiently explaining that the root cause of all this menace is the disintegrating capitalist system which is imposing these forces on humanity.
They are also encouraging people to raise their voice against unemployment, price hikes and other basic issues like healthcare and education. The inability of the system to provide these basic necessities is not due to any lack of resources but to the lack of planning which can only be done under Socialism.
The comrades of the IMT are working inside the PPP and also in trade unions of various departments and are also organizing the unemployed youth of the area on the platform of the BNT (Unemployed Youth Movement) to wage a political struggle against these reactionary forces. In this struggle, imperialism, the Pakistani state apparatus, the Army and the Taliban are all against them. And yet, the forces of revolutionary socialism are growing in the area. This can be seen from the fact that in the year 2008 after the general elections of February the only political activities carried out in Malakand were those of the comrades of IMT. They celebrated May Day, a big demonstration against price hikes on June 2 and also a rally in support of the Venezuelan and Bolivian revolutions, and another against US aggression in September in Batkhela when they burnt US flags.
The masses are learning fast from their own experiences and are listening to the ideas of socialism. That is why the only threat the Taliban really feel are from the genuine forces of socialism. During the Friday prayers sermons are given in Malakand and Swat condemning the ideas of Karl Marx and Lenin and attacking the theory of surplus value to warn the people to keep away from these ideas. In spite of all this, the struggle of the comrades is still going on amid serious threats but they are waging a serious fight.
When the masses will begin to move they will smash these forces of barbarism and will stand up against all aggression of the State and fundamentalist forces. The movement of hundreds of thousands of poor and downtrodden peasants and workers will not listen to sermons or feel threatened by weapons but will move on to challenge this system. There is a history and tradition of such movements in this region, especially during the 1968-69 revolution. A volcanic eruption from the depths of society will shake the standing army from inside and the ferment in the rank and file will grow to become a revolt.
The comrades are patiently explaining the ideas of revolutionary Marxism and have remained in the area against all odds and threats to their lives. In the coming period they will be able to lead the masses towards the complete transformation of society. On this basis and united with the movement of workers, youth and peasants of other areas of Pakistan, will lay the basis for a move towards a socialist revolution in Pakistan.
RENEGADE EYE
317 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 317 of 317Yep, it's definitely going to be a long, LONG while.
So you want to destroy Ren's blog?
At last it comes out.
As fun as this besting of you two is, the serious matter is that Ren will not post again until this stops, to quote him:
"I'm not posting anything, until its safe to."
How soon is now?
To be clear:
Ren has aksed for this to stop otherwise he doesn't blog, so the nub is, how much do you two want this blog under and to silence views you don't hold?
The irony is, by Ren not silencing the trolling and letting it have air he is putting his blog at risk.
The responsibility is yours, act now.
I've spoken to Ren about you FJ and the honour of his beliefs, ie: letting your comments stand is much more than many would afford you.
You abuse this trust and postion.
Why?
You should be grateful he lets you comment here, many others would not be so lenient and liberal, yourself included, who would shut down any opposing voices.
Sorry poofty, but I've yet to see YOUR commitment to honouring Ren's wishes. And so long as you go on abusing your trust and privledged position, I am compelled to respond to your abuse in kind. It's become a matter of principle now. And you know us "righties" and our principles.
I humbly apologize to the host of the forum for the inconvenience this is causing him and those who would like to get on with more important discussions... but the playground bully has got to change his ways.
And let me make it clear, that I'm talking about poofty.
You've not seen my commitment because you don't want to see it because it puts you in the wrong which, of ocurse, you are.
My commitment is clearly outlined in my constant use of Ren's own words for this to stop which you ignore and make no reference to.
You are blind to the reality of the situation and you have made the terrible mistake of actually thinking I won't win, when I will.
And talk not of your principles, you're a vulgar shell of a human with little snese of compassion or sesne and so at every turn, as I have done, I will best you.
That is principle dear boy.
Yes, you will win poofty. It will be a pyrrhic victory for you though...
Enjoy watching the comments drop and drop until its' just the two of us on every thread. It'll be fun.
Whatever.
It's already happening.
THIS appalling outrage in the Pakistani city of Lahore, closely modelled on last November's terrorist bombings in India's Mumbai, represents a new template for al-Qa'ida and like-minded groups around the world.
Lahore is the ancient capital city ofthe Punjab, Pakistan's largest province.
Its desecration through this terrorist attack is a savage blow to the Pakistani state.
It is second only to the murder of Bennazir Bhutto in demonstrating the continuing, and worsening, crisis in Pakistan.
The question deserves to be asked: are we witnessing the unravelling of Pakistan?
The Pakistan Government has effectively surrendered to the Taliban in the Swat Valley, not too far from Islamabad. It claims a dubious victory against the Taliban in the Bajur region.
But now even touring cricketers from Sri Lanka in Lahore are not safe against an exceedingly well-armed, well-manned, well-organised terrorist outfit, that is more like an urban insurgent army than a traditional terrorist cell.
Clearly, terrorists can now strike anywhere in Pakistan, and seemingly at will.
The Government cannot carry out the most basic function of a state -- securing its own territory, whether that be the tribal regions, the badlands on the borders, or even its cities.
This brazen attack is also a declaration to the Pakistani Government that it bought absolutely nothing through its deal with the Taliban in the Swat Valley.
You cannot buy your way clear of terrorists. They take whatever coin you offer and then renew the attack anyway.
Nonetheless, the only sensible option for the West, for the US and Australia, is to increase assistance to the ramshackle Pakistani Government.
The Pakistani state is facing a crisis of competence and capability.
But if the state were to fail it would be replaced by the terrorists.
The urgent priority, therefore, is to bolster the state, however difficult andin some senses even futile that may seem. The other disturbing conclusion from this attack is that we will see more like them.
Western intelligence agencies believe that al-Qa'ida and affiliated groups have fully internalised what they see as the success of the Mumbai attacks.
They caused havoc, disrupted a major city for days, killed a lot of people and dominated the global media for much longer than a single bombing, no matter how destructive, was likely to do.
Western intelligence agencies believe there is a good chance that the next big terrorist attack in a Western society could follow the Mumbai model, now repeated in Lahore.
This is a bad day all round for the values of civilisation.
I'm a big cricket fan, the fourth umpire is seriously injured.
This appears to be but a preliminary result of the much vaunted Obama multi-polar diplomatic approach, Danny, you should be rejoicing...
Funny how much of this simply appears to be appeasement and surrender to the rest of us... whoda thunk there was method behind this madness, eh?
No FJ, you take a tragedy and then make it the fault of Obama when, I'm afraid, there is no connection.
Why can't you let it lay? Many people are injured, why play political football with this?
Because this is simply one more in a long line of Islamic extremist terrorist attacks against "foreign influences" that will now escalate and tear Pakistan apart. You can't capitulate to this kind of behavior as was done in Swat. If you do, they'll simply move the terrorism to Lahore and Islamabad or London, Madrid and New York.
cricket isn't foreign in pakistani eyes,the attack is a mistake because cricket is a unifying force in pakistan.
It's not foreign to a seventh century "death cult" that wishes to expel the crusaders from the Holy Lands and restore the caliphate? Wow! You really have NO IDEA what's going on, do you?
Bad maths again FJ, you're adding together lots of things that aren't there, either to reality or to my statements and then runnign with a strawman you've built to put yourself in the corner and to sling mud.
Try harder.
Back on topic, my hope is that Pakistan uses cricket as a device by which to unite the country.
It is their passion and the removal of International cricket from their shores for the long term would be a dire blow.
Come back to me when you know more about circket and Pakistan.
Perhaps you can tell me about how cricket kept India and Pakistan from going their separate ways, first.
Cricket has been a wonderful device for harmony between the two nations, competative yes, fractious at times but it brings the two cultures together over a deeply shared passion as cricket is the premier sport in those two nations.
And a sport close to my heart.
And people are generally more likely to organize themselves peacefully around the love of a particular sport like cricket then they are around protecting and advancing the interests of their church and family/ tribe, is that what your saying?
Because that's sure what it sounds like you're saying.
...because it doesn't sound like the villagers in the Swat valley are rallying around their cricket teams.
What I'm saying is that in attacking cricket the terrorists have made a grave error becuase it is one, if not the only, uniting factors to turn the tide against the harbouring and propagation of terror.
Cricket is acheiving increased success in bringing harmony to some parts of Afghanistan, on its own of course, it'll never bring peace but as one element of the glue to bring diversive elements together, it is to be encouraged.
Here's hoping pakistan is not pushed out of international cricket, www.cricinfo.com is a good source on the story.
But it's NOT an error. THAT's precisely WHY they're are attacking it! They are against all those secular "uniting factors" and are FOR the propogation of their particular brand of ISLAMIC TERROR, and it's working.
But if you think some local people are going to FIGHT back on the basis of holding more cricket matches, you are sadly mistaken.
The Islamicists have demonstrated their willingness to FIGHT FOR their religion and to force all other to "submit" to the religion of "submission". And they have now won.
Soon there will be no more cricket in Pakistan, period. But there will be many Islamic Courts administering Shari'a law and one of the four Sunni forms of Islamic jurisprudence (fiqh).
You are blinkered to only one possible outcome, a doom laden one because it fits your ideology.
I don't see it your way.
Which is fine.
So you do accept this as a possible outcome. Only you choose to ignore this "possible outcome" because another appears "more probable". I would love to share your optimism, only I cannot discover any "reason" supporting it. Perhaps you would care to share with us the 'reason' as to why you are so confident that Islam will not emerge victorious in this ancient battle in which they prevailed against the modern USSR and the British Empire before them?
Of ocurse what you suggest is a possible outcome, just as pakistan turning to Jesus is also a possible outcome but their are levels of it happening at play.
Yes there are... how very clever of you to recognize that fact. And thank you for responding to the question asked and stating the many reasons why you believe that the cricketeers will ultimately prevail in the struggle for control of Pakistan. I feel so much better knowing that such "deep" thinkers as yourself may have spent more than thirty seconds contemplating the troubles facing the degenerating situation there.
As always, you don't deal with my points and you just sling mug.
Shame.
...on you.
*sigh*
*pfffttt*
Yeah.
Keep sniffin' em in, Danny. Here's another one for ya.
*pffffttttt*!
Weak.
Futile.
Pointless.
Empty.
You.
Hitchens scolds the Obambecils on Swat...
and a present for Danny. *pfffftttt!*
oh yes!
Hey, maybe if you remain silent from here on out, you won! lol!
Still no, nice try to bait but I've made it clear enough in the other thread.
Of course... it's ALL about you. LOL!
"LOL?"
Grow up.
ROTFL!
Child.
Moron. :P
No
Moron in denial...
wrong
...De Nile.
River Thames
Wrong.
The Seine.
Wrong.
Bored.
Boring.
Yep.
Echo
Narcisus!
no
nothing
Poopsy!
Poop si!
Nope.
Just say no bitch.
No, bitch!
Yeah, you do what I say, I knew it!
No, bitch!
And again!
No, bitch!
There you go again my patsy.
Queer says what?
You use homosexuality as an insult, hence you're a homophobe.
Well done bigot.
And you're an insult to good looking faggots everywhere, poofty. Have you ever thought plastic surgery?
Again, you use homosexuality as an insult, hence you're a homophobe.
Have you ever thought of killing yourself?
An insult? No. More a subject of ridicule. That you perceive it as an insult is all on your end.
And having no fear whatsoever of homosexuals, I can't possibly be considered to be a homo-phobe either.
Have you ever thought of having an original thought of your own? I didn't think so.
No, you use it as an insult and you know as well as I do that you are homophobic, just cuz you're not out with your fear and loathing doesn't mean you're not one.
Keep trying bigot.
Speaking of orignal thought as well you fucking cunt, I make a living from it.
GAME OVER.
Also, you take homophobia too literally, you know as well as the next bigot that it is a fear of or contempt for lesbians and gay men. An irrational fear or intolerance of homosexuality, or behaviour that is perceived to uphold and support traditional gender role expectations. The prevalent assumption in Western society is that heterosexuality is the only acceptable sexual orientation.
NEXT!
Correction - You make a living emoting OTHER people's original thoughts, rhapsode. Your an interpretter for the interpretters.
Plato, "Ion"
SOCRATES: And you rhapsodists are the interpreters of the poets?
ION: There again you are right.
SOCRATES: Then you are the interpreters of interpreters?
ION: Precisely.
SOCRATES: I wish you would frankly tell me, Ion, what I am going to ask of you: When you produce the greatest effect upon the audience in the recitation of some striking passage, such as the apparition of Odysseus leaping forth on the floor, recognized by the suitors and casting his arrows at his feet, or the description of Achilles rushing at Hector, or the sorrows of Andromache, Hecuba, or Priam,—are you in your right mind? Are you not carried out of yourself, and does not your soul in an ecstasy seem to be among the persons or places of which you are speaking, whether they are in Ithaca or in Troy or whatever may be the scene of the poem?
ION: That proof strikes home to me, Socrates. For I must frankly confess that at the tale of pity my eyes are filled with tears, and when I speak of horrors, my hair stands on end and my heart throbs.
SOCRATES: Well, Ion, and what are we to say of a man who at a sacrifice or festival, when he is dressed in holiday attire, and has golden crowns upon his head, of which nobody has robbed him, appears weeping or panic-stricken in the presence of more than twenty thousand friendly faces, when there is no one despoiling or wronging him;—is he in his right mind or is he not?
ION: No indeed, Socrates, I must say that, strictly speaking, he is not in his right mind.
SOCRATES: And are you aware that you produce similar effects on most of the spectators?
ION: Only too well; for I look down upon them from the stage, and behold the various emotions of pity, wonder, sternness, stamped upon their countenances when I am speaking: and I am obliged to give my very best attention to them; for if I make them cry I myself shall laugh, and if I make them laugh I myself shall cry when the time of payment arrives.
No, I'm talking definitions of words you tit and how someone who block quotes dead people all the time can lay claim to buring originality, you're a plagirist and an idiot.
Well done on that!
...says the interpreter for the interpreters of dead people.
rotfl!
No, again, you're wrong.
...and so Plato was wrong about you rhapsodes too. LOL!
You laready got bitch slapped by Ren over in the Roxana Saberi thread. Shut the fuck up.
LOL! Who got bitch slapped? Yes, all your best qualities did run down your mother's leg...
You did, Ren made it clear in the Roxana thread he was tired of your attacks.
Note it well.
If he's tired of my attacks he must be completely fed up with yours.
No, because he has not told me off in the thread I just mentioned.
But he did you.
Oh dear.
You are behaving like a child.
Again.
And just what did he say specifically that really "told me off"?
You really should stay off the drugs, Danny. You're becoming delusional.
To quote Ren:
"Farmer: At your blog, the discussion is civil. Most of the comments agree with you, but not all. Still it's civil. I don't expect you to form friendships with some here, but to deal on the basis of ideas, not the person...Someone new here like Ravin, who has been actively involved in the campaign for Roxanne, shouldn't have to read this garbage....Spare me the they do it too. The bigger issue is the tone has to change."
Clearly you can't read or choose to ignore it, which is odd considering you said you'd respect Ren's wishes.
not surprising you failed to continue his post...
Daniel H-G; It stinks that a thread about an issue that has so much support, can degenerate like it did.
The attack on Freedom Now, opened the door for Farmer to attack. I think his politics are based on wrong assumptions, but he never trolled here.
The discussion went to hell before FJ came. He didn't help.
And who was responsible for the personal attack on FN and subsequent piling on that took the discussion to hell BEFORE I arrived?
best look in the mirror again, poofty.
BTW - Happy Daniel Hoffman-Gill Day!
Not surprising because it is not related to me, also, you seem to have gloriously ignored what was said to you, like the child you are.
To repeat:
"Farmer: At your blog, the discussion is civil. Most of the comments agree with you, but not all. Still it's civil. I don't expect you to form friendships with some here, but to deal on the basis of ideas, not the person...Someone new here like Ravin, who has been actively involved in the campaign for Roxanne, shouldn't have to read this garbage....Spare me the they do it too. The bigger issue is the tone has to change."
Youhave ignored this, also, you've ignored what you quote, to remind you, as if you care what Ren thinks and will alter your behaviour...
"I think his politics are based on wrong assumptions...He didn't help."
And to be clear, I was not resposible for any attacks on freedomnow, this is about you and as Ren said (to repeat YET again):
"Spare me the they do it too. The bigger issue is the tone has to change."
Question is, will you listen or will you ignore it like you always do while protesting that you'll listen?
Idiot.
Not surprising because it is not related to me...
LOL! It was addressed to you BY NAME!
The attack on Freedom Now, opened the door for Farmer to attack.
You open the door... the cat ran in. Either maintain a civil tongue in your head, or don't cry later about the lashing you take.
The discussion went to hell before FJ came. Translation: "It was ALL YOUR OWN STUPID FAULT, DOOFUS!"
I'm a tit-4-tat man. You reap what you sow.
So continue to sow, and you'll continue to reap. Idiot.
You're confused old man, of course Ren's words were addressed to me but the content was not a telling off. You seem to have forgotten this.
Also, as I said, I didn't attack freedomnow and as for your translation, not at all I'm afraid.
As I've pointed out endlessly, Ren has made it clear with you how he wants you to behave, you are clearly not interested in that, so all those protestations from you of 'I'll do what Ren says' were lies and expose the awfulness of your character once again.
To repeat his words, yet again, in direct admonishment of you:
"Farmer: At your blog, the discussion is civil. Most of the comments agree with you, but not all. Still it's civil. I don't expect you to form friendships with some here, but to deal on the basis of ideas, not the person...Someone new here like Ravin, who has been actively involved in the campaign for Roxanne, shouldn't have to read this garbage....Spare me the they do it too. The bigger issue is the tone has to change."
I want to see you ignore it again just so I can sure you are a cunt.
I await the response to prove that you are one...
LOL... if what Ren wrote after addressing you wasn't addressed to you, then what makes you think that he was only telling ME off in what he addressed in my section, Beavis?
The discussion went to hell before FJ came. He didn't help.
In other words, Ravin was met with a shit-over post before I even got there... don't YOU ever take any responsibility for any of the harm that YOU do?
Man up Danny boy. Oh, that's right, you can't tell a hen to crow like a rooster....
To repeat:
"Farmer: At your blog, the discussion is civil. Most of the comments agree with you, but not all. Still it's civil. I don't expect you to form friendships with some here, but to deal on the basis of ideas, not the person...Someone new here like Ravin, who has been actively involved in the campaign for Roxanne, shouldn't have to read this garbage....Spare me the they do it too. The bigger issue is the tone has to change."
You're ignoring it like the cunt you are by playing word games.
At least you've lost the last bit of an argument that you had, the defense that you'd stop when Ren asked you to.
You're not.
You are exposed.
Again.
Any time Ren wants me gone from this blog, I'm gone. But I'm not gone because Ren knows I'm not the one who starts these derrogatory exchanges. I'm merely the tit4tat guy who gets ugly enough to force YOU and him to finally wish to end them.
Got a problem? I'm only a mirror reflecting back your own shenannigans. CUNT.
To repeat:
"Farmer: At your blog, the discussion is civil. Most of the comments agree with you, but not all. Still it's civil. I don't expect you to form friendships with some here, but to deal on the basis of ideas, not the person...Someone new here like Ravin, who has been actively involved in the campaign for Roxanne, shouldn't have to read this garbage....Spare me the they do it too. The bigger issue is the tone has to change."
And for emphasis:
"Spare me the they do it too. The bigger issue is the tone has to change."
Can you read that?
Shame on you. Can't you read?
The attack on Freedom Now, opened the door for Farmer to attack.
You opened the door... the cat ran in. Either maintain a civil tongue in your head, or don't cry later about the lashing you take.
The discussion went to hell before FJ came.
Translation: "It was ALL YOUR OWN STUPID FAULT, DOOFUS!"
I'm a tit-4-tat man. You reap what you sow.
So continue to sow, and you'll continue to reap. Idiot.
Now fess up. Be a man... if you can.
Heads buried in the sand, keep it there if you wish but to repeat:
"Farmer: At your blog, the discussion is civil. Most of the comments agree with you, but not all. Still it's civil. I don't expect you to form friendships with some here, but to deal on the basis of ideas, not the person...Someone new here like Ravin, who has been actively involved in the campaign for Roxanne, shouldn't have to read this garbage....Spare me the they do it too. The bigger issue is the tone has to change."
And for emphasis:
"Spare me the they do it too. The bigger issue is the tone has to change."
Can you read that?
Has your tone changed? Then don't hold your breath expecting mine to get any better. I'm purely YOUR reflection.
So take your head out of Gert's ass and smell the coffee.
I wasn't asked to change my tone FJ, you were and I've quoted that section often where Ren had to ask that of you.
Stop being a child and let's leave this alone.
The bigger issue is the tone has to change."
Notice use of the word "the" and not "YOUR".
You have been asked. Now man up or shut up.
You are in denial in order to escape censure from the owner of this blog, because if you actually were a man and accepted that censure you'd have to stop behaving in the way you do here, which would cause you a great deal of pain.
You are blatently ignoring the words of Ren in a comment addressed to you that said: "but to deal on the basis of ideas, not the person...Spare me the they do it too. The bigger issue is the tone has to change."
You seem to be asking, in a comment addressed to you, not me, that Ren also added the term FJ to that comment that he had already addressed to you?
Don't you see how silly you are being in order to avoid facing up to your behaviour?
Hopefully, this outlining of the matter in the most basic terms for you will be enough for you to see the error of your ways but unfortunately, I have a feeling that it has nothing to do with Ren's wishes and everything to do with your own selfishness.
Perhaps you will prove me wrong...
LOL!
...yet you deny culpability in the thread addressed to you...
Daniel H-G; It stinks that a thread about an issue that has so much support, can degenerate like it did.
The attack on Freedom Now, opened the door for Farmer to attack. I think his politics are based on wrong assumptions, but he never trolled here.
The discussion went to hell before FJ came.
"Hopefully, this outlining of the matter in the most basic terms for you will be enough for you to see the error of your ways but unfortunately, I have a feeling that it has nothing to do with Ren's wishes and everything to do with your own selfishness."
I read the quote you use of Ren's and I see this:
First section is a statement of fact realting to the thread degenerating as many threads here now do. It is not directed at me but rather a statement in general, I know this becuase Ren and I indulge in private correspodance on my contributions to this forum.
The second section refers to freedomnow, who by this phase I had not had any interaction with, this is mentioned because it enabled you to then start your attacks.
The third and final quote relating to the discussion going to hell before you came is indeed true but that doesn't make your actions in that thread and many others alright, as Ren said to you directly:
"Spare me the they do it too. The bigger issue is the tone has to change."
You are clearly under the impression that I too was admonished by Ren in order to somehow distance yourself from your own admnonishment. I'm not sure why you behave this way, you hide behind word games and point fingers at others and never take responsibility fior your own actions, you merely cry: "Well he is doing it!"
I have worked with disadvantaged young people with more sense of honour and right and wrong than you.
I would prefer it if you were at least honest and brazen in your behaviour, rather than hiding as you are.
Either that or you are totally delusional regarding your contributions here and perhaps that is the case.
I note also, in your quoting of me, that you, as often happens when you are challenged, never deal with the point put to you. You either ignore and move on to something else or reverse it, hoping your own avoidance is not noted.
I'm reading Mein Kampf at the moment and you remind me of the people Hitler used to practice his debating skills against on the building site, the Marxists who slipped and wriggled from the coherent to the facile in order to stop beign challenged on thier ideas.
No doubt you'll read something into that that isn't there but it just struck a chord as I read it this morning.
LOL! You AND gert were baiting FN, yet you continue to deny it? Best go back and re-read, my wee-wee weasle.
And hey, if you won't even follow your own admonitions and advice regarding courtesy and blog decorum, then you can hardly expect anyone else to them seriously either.
btw - Mein Kamph. It figures. You think that if you repeat a lie often enough, people will eventually come to believe it. Sorry pal, it doesn't work that way. Alinsky tactics only work w/ non-Machiavellians.
Let's re-cap for you:
Gert: Oh, dear, the imbecile Freedomnow has ventured on the scene.
This hypocritical ex-liberal is one of the most Far Right bloggers in the Western Hemisphere and loves to crap on about "freedom" and "liberty" as long as those concepts apply to the most Holy and Wholesome of Peoples, the Americans.
Supported the Iraq war with a vengeance. Still does, I'm guessing.
Although self-avowed atheist and not a gay-basher, he's effectively surrounded by homophobes and religious nutters because he can use three syllable words whereas 'teyh caanot'. In the name of pluralism...
Shits long and boring tracts because he loves his own writing "style" so much.
Obama basher par excellence...
Loves to come across as 'civic' by deploying a soft semi-polished tone.
In short, a pedantic Far Right Fart.
Where he goes, Nancompoop can't be far behind...
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Poofty: I'm with Gert, again, he's spotted that a right-wing troll lord has arrived here, to join the other right-wing trolls we are inundated with and is flagging that up.
Gert has it down pat.
---------------
Gert:
Ren:"Gert; I think attacking Freedom Now personally is inappropriate since he didn't attack personally."
Oh, fair point. But I'm not all ad hominem about FN. The guy's a windbag, all Conservative Talking Points and no substance. A Bush poodle... Oooooh, Obama winning, that must have HURT like hell.
He once endorsed (perhaps still?) the hilarious Moonbattery.com. Funny that: they declared once that (paraphrasing from memory - but I have the exact words on my blog somewhere): 'Jews and Hispanics made McCain lose. Jews and Hispanics, they're all the same. Fuck'em!'
Considering FN is Puerto Rican, that endorsement of his sounds a little, shall we say... partisan?
MB are also unabated, unashamed homo-bashers (very bon ton in US Conservative circles - a genuine cesspit of homophobia), FN claims to be in favour of gay rights. Why endorse such a site then?
Left-right or right-left mudslinging can be real fun but when the Moonbat slayers turn out to real Wingnuts then that's really pot meet kettle.
Claims also to be somewhat critical of Israel but one of Mad Zionists buddies nonetheless, even during the days when MZ still advocated "exterminating the vermin" (vermin = all Muslims). Not a critical peep from FN. Not once.
That whole blogging cluster that is FN's habitat has about as much credibility as The Autonomist (Rocco Dipissedoff) or FrontPageMag (David Horriblewitz).
FN reminds me of Mad Mel Phlips: probably got a piece of 9/11 debris on their heads and never fully recovered...
Still, I respect your willingness to see the best in people. Make sure you don't get screwed over though...
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Poofty: Gert:
I'm not your wing man but damn you're making some fine sense.
---------------
Moi:
No poofty, you're not Gert's wing-man, you're more closely akin to his fudge packer.
----------------
...and it's all down-hill from there. FN was too much of a gentleman to respond to being called an imbecile, a hypocrite, of shitting long and boring tracts, and labelled a pedantic fart (which you then affirmed, and added the appelation of "right-wing troll lord").
ren THEN ADMONISHED GERT, who blew him off and added the insults of: windbag, racist and homophobe by proxy, Muslim basher, with a head full of debris...
to which you responded, "Gert, I'm not your wing man, but you're making fine sense."
-----
...and YOU have the GALL to admonish me for my tone. You're in deep De-Nile, pally.
All you can do is point the finger back at me and refuse to accept your own behaviour, like a child.
Ren has already said to you to stop doing this but you go and on and on.
You are a fool to think that this will stop, I will always beat you as I have done in every thread time and time again.
What you deam as evidence is utterly missing the point, again, accept your own behaviour is wrong, as Ren as asked you to do.
But this is missing the point, this is all about your behaviour, ducking the issues and making a fool of yourself time and time again.
Keep it coming.
As for Mein Kampf, explain your comment, it makes no sense, aside from in your tiny mind.
LOL! And it probably won't make any sense until you've finished reading Mein Kamph, my little iliterate Nazi friend.
So now accept and admit that your own behavior has been wrong and do as Ren has requested EVERYONE to do. But you miss the point, this is all about you being the "pc enforcer", ignoring honest arguments and discussions and attempting to shout the opposition down with imagined Leftist moral indictments of other people's motives... be they "racist" or "homophobic".
And now you ignorant old fool, you call me a Nazi becuase I am reading Mein Kampf, seemingly forgetting my own Jewish heritage and insulting me even further beyond the normal accusations of being gay.
I'm sure you're proud of yourself.
Hitler's Jewish heritage was an embarrassment to him to.
...and I didn't call you a Nazi. I called you an iliterate Nazi. You're more one of Rohm's SA brownshirt types than the SS.
You are calling me a Nazi, a totally disgraceful act considering the loss of family members in the acts of atrocity and carnage during the Second World War, what a crass and horrible act from a crass and horrible man.
Are you proud of this?
Are you proud of acting like a Nazi and drawing the comparison given what your ancestors went through?
Perhaps it isn't I who should be ashamed.
I lost relatives in WWII as well. My uncle died on the beach at Iwo Jima. His namesake fought in the Civil War freeing the slaves. How do you think it makes me feel to be called a racist or a fascist? Yet you claim to know my heart and intentions whenever I post.
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