Saturday, August 26, 2006

The Siege on Lebanon Continues

For now, Lebanon has been under siege since July 15th when the Israeli war ships formulated a siege on its shore and destroyed most of its routes. Lebanon during the war was under seige and its people were held hostages to IDF aggression. The upper class lebanese with two nationalities succeeded in escaping through the UN sponsored evacuations while the rest were left to be killed. The whole Lebanon was bombed except Beirut's heartland (although East and West Beirut were bombed few times).

During the siege, Israeli plans kept dropping leaflets telling the Lebanese that it was Hassan Nasrallah who brought this on them, and then the leftlets would confirm that Lebanon is burning and will burn more. It is important to tell sometimes the boxes which carries those "leaflets of mercy" sometimes do not open and do almost the damage of a Katyosha when falling on the ground. Israel was not aware that Lebanon this time was united economically and socially against its aggression as people from all sects welcomed the 1.1 million refugees, who are mostly from the lower class. 1.1 million refugee means more than 25% of the Lebanese population, can you imagine 25% of your own nation living on the streets, schools, and religious locations? Two churches were bombed, the Red Cross was bombed (actually plenty of times the Red Cross was bombed live when carrying Korean and or BBC journalists).

Lebanon was held a hostage in this brutal siege, while only one route remained accessible to Syria for people seeking safety. Israel kept saying that they warned the people to flee while mistaking the infrastructure of Hezbollah for the Lebanese. Actually there is no infrastructure for a party organized in a para-military form. Israel knew that, but needed the excuse to bomb out Lebanon. For example, the people of Marwaheen were killed, and mostly children. After Israel bombed the village on the borders, destroyed all gas stations, attacked refugee buses, and many more, Israel issues a one hour warning for the people of Marwaheen to flee. The poor people of that village had no means, no routes, and no where to go, so they go to neighboring UNIFIL to seek assylum, but UNIFIL does not welcome them, and Israel bombs the refugees returning to their homes (picture of the martyrs carried by a kid link )

The United States administration argued that it wants to create peace while giving Israel all the time it needed to carry out its bombing and not only that, but gave it laser guided missiles and bunker busters. They argued that this way it avoided killing civilians, which is ironical, because next week of that event, the Qana massacre took place. Qana is probably the only massacre exposed out of the over 1000 Lebanese civilian deathtoll. Rice argued that what is happening now is the creating of a New Middle East. The question is on whose expense is it? The people always pay for it. The new Middle East has to fit 100% the United States's foreign policy.

The siege on Lebanon and as resistance to Israeli invasion was gaining more and more momentum, the current US forged Arab regimes appeared to be shakey. Egypt, Jordan, and Saudi Arabia were having demonstrations, and the situation was escalating as the IDF, which appeared undefeatable, were losing on the ground. The reactionary regimes focused on donating humanitarian aid to Lebanon in order to save their own regimes from chaos. The United States forgot that the people of the Middle East still express solidarity to Lebanon and Palestine. As Egypt and Jordan refuted to go against the flow of their people by kicking the Israeli ambassadors, pressure was building more and more on them. They desperately needed a UN resolution to calm the offensive on Lebanon.

As Round 1 (as the people of Lebanon are calling it since they are expecting Israel to bomb more) is over, the Israeli siege remains under of course "Israel has the right to defend itself." Lebanon is still not allowed to bring forth weaponry to defend itself, and Israel bombed plenty of Lebanese army locations as well which made it already weaker as it is. The latest fiasco is as follows: Israel would not lift the siege from Lebanon unless UNIFIL forces are on Syrian borders as well, and Syria would close its borders with Lebanon in case UNIFIL are present on those areas.


The United States stopped Israel from bombing heart of Beirut in order not to weaken the Anti-Syrian government in majority, but allowed Israel to bomb the rest of Lebanon (check the locations bombed over here: link), not to forget the Oil spill when Israel bombed the Jiyyeh region and did not allow anyone to clean at least contain the damage. The Anti-Syrian Government decided to agree today that the Syrian borders will not have UNIFIL soldiers without the consent of the Syrians. Bush wants to drive Lebanon to a civil war by formulating a UN law to disarm Hezbollah. He forgets that Hezbollah was the party that kicked out Israel out of Lebanon in 2000 after its land has been occupied since 1978. He seems to forget that it was Hezbollah that built hospitals and schools for the people of the South. I would like to make it clear, I am not pro-Hezbollah, I am for a secular resistance against the IDF or all forms of bourgoeisie. Yet, when Lebanon was under invasion, Hezbollah again proved that they are the only force to incurr loses on IDF. In 1982, when Israel invaded Lebanon, it took them 5 hours to make it to the Damascus - Beirut route (half way to Lebanon), now it them two weeks to occupy a single village. Bush has to be aware that the arms of Hezbollah can't be taken away except through national dialogue between the leaders (well I call it the business meetings of the elites on the expense of the Proletariat).

1187 Lebanese civilians have been killed in less than a month. One third of those killed are children. Anan himself said that this is the first war where children die more than combatants (special thanks to Israeli aggression). This link displays some horrifying numbers (link), excluding the fact that Israel used prohibited weaponry such as cluster bombs and phospohric bombs. Bush made sure the UN resolution gave Israel "the right to defend itself" even inside Lebanon, Israel already on 3 seperate occassions severely violated UN 1701 while the UN officials were crippled and only said: "Israel should not have done this"

Now Lebanon is a tiny spot trapped between racist bourgeoisie known as Zionist, and over there the engineer of the "Grapes of Wrath" Mr. Natanyaho is doing a come back against Olmert, so we wonder what is the differenc between each government when it is not secular and extremely Zionist. From the other side, el-Assad is capitalizing on Hezbollah's victory for his own bargaining chips, and the hope to bring forth Lebanon back to his dominion.

In the end, the bourgeoisie play their games, and divide the Proletariat according race, gender, religion nationality, and color. The United States, through its corporations in general, and media ones in specific dominate its people while keeps promoting the Nationalism under the banner of the American Dream (link) The people pay for the prices of their rulers. In the end, I do not see any solution for the problem except a very long one which would involve the unity of the Proletariat for all sects and backgrounds and get rid of their leaders. Tony cliff thought of that over here: (Link).

What the near future holds, time will tell, but till now not so good.

MFL

PS: Details of the war (minute by minute) can be seen over here Link

78 comments:

beatroot said...

Welcome to Renegade’s. Lots of interesting things you say here.

”In the end, I do not see any solution for the problem except a very long one which would involve the unity of the Proletariat for all sects and backgrounds and get rid of their leaders. Tony cliff thought of that…

Tony Cliff? So you are in the Lebanese version of the SWP!

What do you think of George Galloway
and the RESPECT coalition?

Hezbollah again proved that they are the only force to incurr loses on IDF…

Which is indeed true. But doesn’t that worry you? Shouldn’t you be strengthening what is still a secular-ish pluralist state? Doesn’t it worry you that religious parties have taken over from strictly nationalist and or socialist ones in the middle east?

The international socialist movement can’t come and help you as they are currently holding their AGM in a wardrobe in Eastborne, England.

So how are you going to put a stop to the rise of conservative, anti-secular parties and movements (and middle class suicide squads from the UK) with a Cliff-ite organization?

Angry Anarchist said...

Churches were bombed? Why single out churches, mosques were bombed too. Schools were bombed, hospitals were bombed, civilian cars were bombed, residential buildings were bombed... First of all, it would be wrong to single out churches, unless one is implying that this was a war against not all of Lebanon but against one sect (or religion), which is not the case... Second, why is the bombing of a church worse than the bombing of, let's say, a residential building? I can't understand this sort of mentality, with which people point out that churches/mosques were bombed. Sure, it is a "holy place" for many if not most people, but isn't life and livelihood more valuable?

Also, none of the demonstrations in Egypt, Jordan, KSA, etc. were big enough to cause much of a concern to those regimes... there was relatively little political awareness among Arab public.

As for the proletariat, there is little (if any at all) class awareness that TRANSCENDS borders and nationalities... The solution lay in shaking off the shackles of power and authority rather than adopting the impossible task of raising class awareness across boundaries - unless you intend to impose such "awareness", in which case we would have to talk about authoritarianism.

Beatroot, the Lebanese army and state are disastrous. HezbAllah has a theological/religious base and core ideology, but it has a very strong social base, one that would be preferable - strictly from an economic/social perspective - to any state entity... I am against all forms of authority, but hypothetically, if I had to choose, I would pick HezbAllah over the "secularish", "pluralistic" state that is Lebanon any day.

MarxistFromLebanon said...

Dear beatroot

I am not the SWP version, I am overall a Communist, I do not like to be labeled this or that... I use the term Trotskyst for not being mistook for a Stalinist or Arab Nationalist as is the case in Lebanon. I think you excluded ideas over sterotyping... btw did you know he labeled himself as a Palestinian Jew?

Second, Lebanon has never been secular. Heck, I had my skull almost cracked while demonstrating for the implementation of Civil Marriage. Lebanon is an expression of sectarian isolated groups having a sole leader. The only time those different groups love each other, is when their leaders love each other.

Third, Why should I worry about Hezbollah? For not disagreeing with US foreign policy? There has always been a sectarian force dominating while other parties attempted to either bandwagon with it, or attempt to do a balance of power.

Fourth, Galloway gave the most objective speech the other day, at least he bothered to reflect a bit more of the ice berg that is mostly hidden under the sea. He was hailed as a National hero by all Lebanese for attempting to express the situation.

Fifth, Israel not in a life time was threatened, and why not? They never treated their neighbors correctly, always relied on US support, and expect that the fact a whole nation was kicked out back in 1948 to go smoothly? People are not born evil you know.

Sixth, what did you do to stop the massacres on the Lebanese Proletariat? I was active to bring aid and donations to the one million refugees unlike your Neo-Con system that is forcing 2 billion person to live on less than 2 dollars.

Seventh, there are no suicide squads. There are people out of desperation, in case of Palestine, that have nothing to live for due to the bombings of their houses, and killing their relatives. Again, you can never generalize unless you dwell inside the mind of the person concerned.

Eighth, there is a global hegemony practiced on the behalf of the entire proletariat, and in case you read "Jihad Versus McWorld" you will find out that you can not expect people to be welcoming US foreign policy.

Nineth, there are people active, but the path is long, and would take much longer to achieve.

Tenth, who told you the Arab states were Socialist? Closest thing was Algeria with Michel Pablo on the board, and it lasted a year after the overthrow of Ben Bella government.

11th, we are the only country who undergo elections based on Sectarian System, I already posted in my blog some details regarding that.

MFL

PS: Anarchy: Miss you :)

beatroot said...

Galloway gave the most objective speech the other day…

Was that the one when he said that when the Soviet Empire fell in Poland and elsewhere it was “the worst day of his life”?

Or was it the speech when Galloway said to Saddam :” Sir: I salute your courage, your strength, your indefatigability. And I want you to know that we are with you,”?

You see, in the UK, where I am from, Galloway is a very divisive figure on the left. RESPECT is basically the alliance of Galloway plus SWP plus the Muslim Brotherhood. The SWP has a position and policy on, for instance, gays, and the Muslim Brotherhood would rather we just chopped their dicks off.

‘Progressives’ making alliances with these sorts of people is a little strange, to say the least.

By UK Suicide Squads I meant those middle class warriers who blew up the ‘British Proletariat’ on 7/7 …etc…and most of the 9/11 jihadists from oh so oppressed and exploited 10 bedroom homes in the Saudi Arabian suburbs.

I didn’t say that middle east countries were socialists only that the movements after the second world war in the middle east had nationalist and socialist, secular characters. The early Ba’athists being a classic example.

But that only made sense during the Cold War. Arabs with the Soviets, Israel with the US.

Cold War has gone. Left wing politics in the middle east has gone. And enter stage centre, reactionary jihadist.

I think the connection is relevant.

And they are not my ‘neo-cons’ and I am against the UN force coming into Lebanon.

You should join a party and get organized…(which means getting one of those boring old names, labels, political identifiers) before secular political parties in your part of the world become like….gays.

DesertPeace said...

Excellent post MFL.. and the link provided is most informative..
Looking forward to further posts of yours.

MarxistFromLebanon said...

For starters, I have nothing against gays, I also had my skull wacked defending their rights.

Second, Gallaway described the situation regarding Palestine and Lebanon precisely. If you want to move against other speeches, feel free to email me them. Regarding the situation I am in, he described it accurately.

Third, what is wrong with the Soviet Union collapsing and being someone's worse day in his life? Plenty of people considered the Soviet Union at least a check point against U.S. imperialism, or you do not regard U.S. is not an imperialist country? Not that I am defending Soviet Union (unless you want to tackle the issue from 1917 - 1924)

Fourth, as an observant seeing how the media was blacking out Lebanon while focusing on even the puppies in Israel or the relatives of the ones hiding in safe neat bombshelters while the Proletariat in Lebanon barely had 5% light shed on it, Gallaway seriously described the situation. So I do not care who said it then (as IAF planes were flying above my head and I was witnessing my third war in my life)

Fifth, progressivenes is when you stick to your goals 100% and not decline 1% of them. The SWP had its revolutionary days, and if the SWP didn't enter these tiny cyclones, the ISO wouldn't have emerged for example.

Sixth, Left Wing politics is gone? Are you sure? Since when we got it, specially in Lebanon, the Soviets used to give the PLO weaponry rather the Lebanese Communist Party, although the LCP was the founder of the Resistance front which kicked out Israel out of "West Beirut". Let me tell you about Left-wing politics, it is the leftists who demand:

1) Equality between genders in terms of salary and pension funds

2) Civil Marriage

3) Progressive Taxes and the lifting of bank account secrecy on the rich

4) Abolish racism towards the Palestinians, Syrians, the US, and Jews alike and direct the attention that it is the capitalist leaders (specific in the US) that hurt the people. We are the only ones who seperate between Zionists and Jews

5) Envirenment activism specially tomorrow I will be going to Byblos at six oclock to clean what the IDF caused an oil spill

6) We are the means to bring different sects to break the ice and interact with each other. As Marx said: Real change takes place through Social Interaction.

So if there are no parties, it does not mean the activists are not active through other means. Besides, you did not reply to any of my points mentioned.

Seventh, if you think everything rotates around Jihadism, for your information it was the United States that supported them back in the 1980s, and specially in Afghanistan while the whole US media rotated around them as freedom fighters. Now again, media switched to protect US foreign policy whose practices gave rise to those reactionary. May be you should question your own government why being an extremist to create other extremists.

If you are a Neo-Con, you have to admit, inequality has reached new levels, and reactions would rise more and more. Besides funny thing, few groups are labeled Jihadists in this pre-emptive war which is an excuse to invade any country is totally illogical. So you tell me, innocent people are suffering from the US or terrorist practices, you think I care? I fed thousands of families that would have starved while IAF planes flew over my head, what did you do except sit and write to attempt to argue the left is gone? See how many points I raised about activism and what the left is doing?

For me, there is no war but class war.

Hasta La Victoria Siempre
MFL

beatroot said...

The ‘gay’ thing was a metaphor.

what is wrong with the Soviet Union collapsing and being someone's worse day in his life? Plenty of people considered the Soviet Union at least a check point against U.S. imperialism…

That’s a very naive thing to say and you wouldn’t be saying it if you had actually lived under that regime. And the Soviets gave the capitalist class a reason to be (‘if you think capitalism is bad then look at the Soviet union’ type stuff)….and for those of us old enough to remember being in leftwing organizations when the Soviets were still around it made building the Left in the west even more difficult than it already was. The Soviet Union was a disaster for all involved. Period.

You seem to be confused about the left in your part of the world. First of all you say, Left Wing politics is gone? Are you sure? Since when we got it, specially in Lebanon,……and then you say … See how many points I raised about activism and what the left is doing?

I can’t believe your ‘analysis’ is so ahistorical. Pan-Arabism – something you should be aware of as the main thinkers came from near where you are now - was a mixture of secular Arab nationalism and secular ‘Arab socialism’…those were the dominant intellectual and political movements up until the late sixties – check out the early Syrian ba’athists like Michel Aflaq and expressed in government by people like Nasser.

But secular Pan –Arabism asa movement has gone and Pan-Islamism has picked up the momentum now.

And if you want to do something about that then you have to get yourself political organized. And that means sorting out ideology, joining or starting groups and parties. Putting secularlism back on the political agenda in your country and region.

And cut the crap about “I was doing this and this while you were just writing about…blah blah’. a) I am not in Lebanon and b) I was political active when you were still sucking your mum’s tit.

Angry Anarchist said...

That’s a very naive thing to say and you wouldn’t be saying it if you had actually lived under that regime.
Uhmm... Allow me to poke my nose into the conversation.... that is not true. Not true at all. My mother grew up in the USSR, and while she does not really agree with everything they did, she would gladly live under it than under some of the current world-conquering regimes that have risen over the ashes of Europe and gain strength by feeding on the blood of innocents in the Middle East and Afghanistan. So, the next time you decide to philosophize on something and claim it was unwanted and gladly gotten rid of, make sure that you have at least experienced it...

Mind you, I am, as an anarchist, not a fan of the USSR, and have in fact criticized it time and again, including, yes, dear MFL, 1917-1924.

beatroot said...

My mother grew up in the USSR, and while she does not really agree with everything they did, she would gladly live under it than under some of the current world-conquering regimes…

It’s true that there are quite a few in Poland (I am writing to you in Warsaw and do know a little of what am ‘philosophizing’ about) yearn for the old days. Many lost materially since 1989. But none of them – none – would say that ‘Russian - and they would say ‘Russian’ – communism’ was good because ‘at least it kept the capitalist imperialists at bay….etc etc’.

Now that really is naive!

BZ said...

Nice to see some new blood here. And very well written piece MFL.

MarxistFromLebanon said...

Beatroot, judging the way you respond, I tend to find it illogical...I already answered to all your points while you barely handled my points...I won't bother answering to you till you respond objectively to all my points :)I do not care about your past, I care about your reactions...show me results now

As for the others, thank you for the nice comments and feel free to add me on msn

No War But Class War
MFL

PS: Chapter 3 is coming soon ^^

CB said...

Interesting post.

Let me see if I have this right. The racist zionist IDF were just waiting patiently (5 years since they left southern Lebanon) for any reason to bomb a peaceful neighbor. Uh....ok

Hassan Nassrallah is just a guy trying to make a difference for the Shiia population of s Lebanon. He has no connection to Iran and the timing of his incursion into Israel had nothing to do with the UN security counsel taking up the question of Persian nukes that week....ok???

So now with promiment Lebanese Shiites condemning Nasrallah and even the Hezbollah cabinet officers and members of parliament, who apparently weren't informed by the cleric that he was going to launch his campaign...he has the support of the people?

Even with the "green wave" (US dollars[because it is more valuable than Lebanese or other regional currencies] from Tehran from oil revenues - those evil capitalists) rolling in to rebuild homes and Hezbollah can get less than 100 people to a "victory rally." .... ah yes, it's getting clearer now.

Hezbollah had no infrastructure in Lebanon? I guess those thousands of rockets launched into northern Israel and IDF casualties were just the result of normal citizens spontaneously coming together to thwart the evil racist zionist who must drink the blood of their enemies daily to survive.

Yeah...all of that makes sense to me....lol

MarxistFromLebanon said...

I posted to this guy's blog but also fitted here as well

Not I am an advocate of Nasrallah, but the names you mentioned do not even reflect 0.01% of the Shiite community. You keep forgetting that it was Nasrallah who build the infrastructure of the South. Just for the fact Levni apologizing for the Israeli people for accepting UN 1701 and in the middle of the apology having a freudian slip of tongue that "no one can take the weaponry of Hezbollah" should reflect that this statement was regarded in Lebanon as raising the white flag.

Seems to me you forgot that at the eve of the demonstration that there are 1.1 million refugee and displaced living on streets, gardens, or schools. BTW, as being active on the refugee grounds, plenty of reports were collected that the refugees refuted money or food coming from a US source. That should give you a clue. Rather than looking at tiny details, why not search for the reality Israel is, and why its brutality created Hezbollah.

Israel on daily basis violated the space of Lebanon, kidnapped villagers on borders, fishers in the sea, bombed out of the blues on plenty plenty of occassions the Lebanese. 1100 civilian dead is not self-defence, and if you regard that as self-defence, according to Anan "the war that children died more than warriors" should give you an idea why your "democractic" Israel is so "loved". Then you are no different than the Zionists because you already stereotyped people according to what you want to hear rather checking out exactly what things going on.

If you want further information, why not checking: Cursed Is the Peace Maker by Boykin... it is the journals of the US diplomat in Lebanon and along with Moris Draper, and few others. That should give you a tiny sample of Israeli brutality.

MFL

PS: I recommend you watch the corporation as well

Just few points:

1) How would you know about infrastructure, just check www.lebanonundersiege.gov.lb and get your information straight, if you are with such actions committed then you are no different than a dictator.

2) Rockets can be launched everywhere if you remember this is the 21st century or need I give you a nice lesson regarding Joseph Nye and globalization's perspective regarding democracy on weaponry

3) None of the Hezbollah cabinet members formulated a critique as they reminded that Lebanon and Syrua is still in a state of war with Israel.

Not I am defending Nasrallah, but getting facts straight... so next time do your homework a little bit better regarding objective research rather than believing what your government says. It is people like you who gets the South globaly starved or killed.

Now you want to teach us how things are going in our own country? oh feel free... lol that as much as you want (lol!!)

MFL

Angry Anarchist said...

promiment Lebanese Shiites condemning Nasrallah
Such as?

Hezbollah can get less than 100 people to a "victory rally."
Where's that?

Hezbollah had no infrastructure in Lebanon? I guess those thousands of rockets launched into northern Israel and IDF casualties were just the result of normal citizens spontaneously coming together to thwart the evil racist zionist who must drink the blood of their enemies daily to survive.
What is that supposed to prove?? That does not prove that HezbAllah has "infrastructure". What does HezbAllah need infrastructure for? Clearly, the reference to "infrastructure" was for bridges, residential buildings, cars, etc. But these have been proven time and again to be nothing more than civilian infrastructure. Well, someone commented on my blog today, saying that it is "well known" that the Iranians were transporting weapons to HezbAllah during the war. And that justifies the bombing of the Casino du Liban bridge, which ironically discomforted the Saudi and Emirati princes more than anything else that has been happening in the past 2 months...

Angry Anarchist said...

Now that really is naive!
Elsewhere in the former USSR, people would beg to differ.

CB said...

When cowards launch rockets from beneath the skirts of women and and from the sand lots of playing children, yes children will be killed.

Remember, the IDF spent days bombing just the airport runway until it became apparent that re-supply was not the issue, Hezbollah had plenty of supply that they were raining down on northern Israel, albeit without acumen.

beatroot said...

Now you want to teach us how things are going in our own country? oh feel free...

What – did you think you would come along to Renegade's Blog, make a post, and the rest of us would sit back and applaud?

Renegade has a good blog because we have good, sometimes constructive – sometimes - arguments and debates here.

Angry Anarchist said...

When cowards launch rockets from beneath the skirts of women and and from the sand lots of playing children, yes children will be killed.
You disgust me. Not one ounce of proof, and yet you disgustingly continue to make such claims. By the way, the last time I checked, Israeli reserve soldiers had set up a base in a communal settlement, isn't that the equivalent of holding civilians as human shields? Or it only applies to non-Israelis?

the IDF spent days bombing just the airport runway
Ah, yeah, the obvious object of Israel's obsession. Ironic that even 20 days into the fighting, after rockets fell in northern Israel, the IAF bombed the airport runways... A silly attempt at persuading oneself, and one's citizens that the runways had not been bombed enough (after at least 5 days of continuous bombardment - must be that the Israelis' missiles are weaker than Katyushas...) and for that reason HezbAllah had been able to re-arm itself... Ah yes, perhaps you can tell me, where does the figure of HezbAllah rockets destroyed stand? After the first week, it stood at 50%, then it was decreased to 40%, but then there was a mysterious silence on the part of the leadership as to how many % of the stockpiles were destroyed. Instead, we saw some weapons being displayed, and I can't help but wonder if the weapons of the internal security forces and army units in Marja'ayoun (who served tea to the Israeli occupiers - this army is expected to defend Lebanon from Israel? But then again that's not the true intention in wanting the army to take over. Israel desperately wants and needs someone to guard its own border... from the other side of the border - and who knows, the presence of the L.A in the south might JUST spark a civil war - that's according to Israeli leadership's wet dreams anyway) make it to this exhibit?

Renegade Eye said...

A guerilla mixes with civilians. That is what they do. Guerillas don't isolate themselves in remote places, and wait to be bombed. Hezbollah would be stupid, or any guerilla army, not to mix with civilians.

beetroot: I know your actual stands. I know you are not a neocon. Why are you not able to express your actual stands, without the confusion. I think it goes back to the there is no left position. I enjoyed it when you, criticized the Soviet Union with a I was there argument, the same thing you critcized MFL for.

CB: Iran simply ordered a war? I think both sides didn't really expect the consequances of their actions. I don't think Hezbollah expected Israel's response, after capturing two soldiers. Israel didn't expect Hezbollah to be as resilient.

beatroot said...

Renegade: it’s not about me taking a ‘position’ on something. The Lebanon problem will be solved, or not, by Lebanese and Israelis, and I think the best way for western governments to help is to stay out of the way…

But we have a new guy who says he is Marxist Lebanese…I am just trying to see how good he is and what his position is on things. And I think his obvious energy is being wasted. I don’t think that spouting slogans like ‘there is only one war, it’s class war’ is very constructive. What Lebanon needs is political organization, clear objectives and tactics to get there.

Truth-Pain said...

Beautifully written and coveyed.

GraemeAnfinson said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
GraemeAnfinson said...

Great post and conversation. Renegade eye does it again!

I would like to add my two cents about the "hiding with civilians" issue. It seems to me that Israel has proven time and time again it will attack targets regardless if there are civilians there or not. From the Extrajudicial assassinations that take place in the occupied areas to the use of cluster bombs in Lebanon, it is quite clear Israel cares little for civilian life. This makes the "hiding with civilians" argument irrelevant.

MarxistFromLebanon said...

CB

Again, like your other friend, you did not tackle my points I replied did not say anything. I mentioned between my blog and here that Israel is supposed to be 100% accurate, so technically we were facing a semi-genocide.

beatroot

I am a revolutionary, what do you expect? I already did in my blog several critiques regarding the Lebanese left as you would find out that step one is to be aware of class struggle and what is its dimension. I am already active through couple of NGOs and student active movements, in preparation to have a well organized party. You surely do not expect me to join the Lebanese Communist Party with its Arab Nationalistic approach and Stalinist organization; however been successful in convincing others about its reality, hence contributing to the leftists.

Besides what is the logic of being a Communist without accepting the logic of class struggle? Just for the fact you are alienated shows you are part of class struggle without noticing

Seems to me I am under a test over here ^^

Anarchy cheers friend

MFL

beatroot said...

Baptisim of fire! :-)

CB said...

Ren & Graem,

Knowing what you say about guerillas and Israel's responses regardless of whether civilians are present - if I don't even challenge those statements, then how responsible was it for Nasrallah to start it all? He didn't have support of the elected Hezbollah officials or even Shiites in the south, but he did hear from Khameni.

MarxistFromLebanon said...

This guy CB seems stubborn to not look at the truth.

If anyone reads your post in Lebanon, they would be laughing. There are two parties that represent the Shiite sect, Hezbollah and AMAL. AMAL tends to represent the upper class, and they are in full allegiance to Hezbollah and actually follow what Nasrallah wants since they are both Pro-Syrian. Hezbollah has 14 MPS and two ministers (Fnaish and Trad Hmaidi), while AMAL had the head of the Parlaiment since mid 1980s.

Yesterday there was a wedding (check annahar again) with 5000 people in it raising the pictures of Nasrallah. A year ago, Nasrallah gathered 900,000 people and caused the build up of 8th of March block. I swear it mate, people would really laugh at you. Those names you mentioned do not have any representation whatsoever... but seems to me that you are so stubborn not to see the truth CB, because you refute to accept facts.

Besides it was not Nasrallah who stirred it up, it was building due to Israeli violations and the keeping of Lebanese prisoners for over 20 years, or of course for you Israel is defending itself.

Check your information straight because I tell you anyone from the middle east would read this (even the Israeli) would laugh at you. Heck check CNN archives, they even got it right, how come not you?

MFL

Angry Anarchist said...

CB will take no note of the four Palestinians who were kidnapped today in Rafah... ages 23, 20, 16, and 15.. they were not abducted, they were arrested...

Can you feel the power of symantics?

HezbAllah has AT LEAST 1 million supporters in Lebanon. I'm talking about pure HezbAllah supporters, not allies. Add to those the allies. Add to those the supporters in the Arab world. Now come back and claim that HezbAllah can't gather 300 people to a protest. You must be in dreamland.

sonia said...

Hezbollah was the party that kicked out Israel out of Lebanon in 2000

Actually, it was international pressure (Europe, US, Canada) that forced Israel to withdraw from Southern Lebanon. Hezbollah then took advantage of the power vaccuum (and the weakness of the Lebanese Army) to carve a state-within-a-state for itself there.

You rhetoric is a bit confusing. At times, you paint yourself as a victim of Zionist agression. At other times, you seem to celebrate Hezbollah victories over the Zionists. It's fine to claim either one, but when you claim both, you basically undermine BOTH arguments. A victorious side cannot claim victimhood. A victim cannot claim victory.

Some people (very nasty people, not me) argue that Lebanon isn't a victim of a Zionist agression - that it is deliberately PROVOKING Zionist aggression (and sacrifice Lebanese civilians in the process) hoping to provoke other Arab countries into invading Israel and destroy it once and for all.

Hezbollah has never defeated Israel in a military confrontation. They withdraw from Souther Lebanon not because they were defeated, but for another reason:

Why ? Because there are 5 million Israelis and 1 billion Muslims. The Israelis can't kill them all. Hitler was able to kill 6 million Jews because the rest of the world hated Jews as well, and didn't really mind that. The world's (especially the Muslim world's) reaction to a similar genocide of the Lebanese would be very different. Israel knows that and they don't dare to go too far. They attack, but then they withdraw. Not because they've been defeated. They weren't. Because they don't dare to go all the way....

beatroot said...

There are those who say (see previous post) that Israel has been planning its masterstroke for years. Amazing then that they did it soooo badly. Their once great intelligence service didn’t even know that Hezbollah (Hizbollah?) had night vision equipment etc. They were shocked by what they found.

The Israeli PM was on the TV claiming victory today. But nobody believes him in Israel.

Israeli politics, like in the west, is ideology lite…the only thing they have left (like the west) is ‘security issues’. And Israeli security issues are rather serious ones (unlike the west).

So Sharon’s new party, which fashioned itself on being a non-ideologocal party that puts security above all else, turns out not to be very good at security issues at all. Ooops.

Likud are licking their lips.

And the Hezbollah leader was on the TV too today: “We were surprised that Israel went nuts when we stole their army guys. They started bombing the shit out of us! If we had known they would do that we wouldn’t have stole them in the first place.”

That war wasn’t the result of deep planning and conspiracy by Washington and Tel Aviv, it was a giant fuck up by clueless leaders. A comedy of errors that isn’t even funny.

Do you get the feeling the middle east is in the hands of incompetents?

Angry Anarchist said...

Actually, it was international pressure (Europe, US, Canada) that forced Israel to withdraw from Southern Lebanon.
So let me get this right. international pressure did not work (or was not exerted) for 18 years, and all of a sudden it "clicked"? If that's the case, I must start believing in "miracles".

A victorious side cannot claim victimhood. A victim cannot claim victory.
So, if HezbAllah was victorious, does that mean there were no Lebanese killed? No civilians deliberately targeted? No people maimed? Injured?

The Israelis can't kill them all.
Oh... how comforting...

The world's (especially the Muslim world's) reaction to a similar genocide of the Lebanese would be very different.
But such wording as you use implies that Israel is not perpetrating ethnic cleansing (of the Palestinians).

They attack, but then they withdraw.
That's why they withdrew from the Golan? The West Bank? And actually, I am inclined to add the Gaza Strip to that list once again....

the flying monkeys said...

This war is a cage and with this post I think the voodoo has been run down. Excellent post from MarxistFromLebanon and thanks to Ren.

Revolutionary Blogger said...

Excellent post MarxistFromLebanon, looking forward to many more!

Out of curiosity, whats your position on Hariri Jr. and his gang. How did the poeple of Lebanon react to him touring Monaco and Cyprus while the zionists destroyed Lebanon?

sonia said...

Anarchist Revolution Is Coming,

international pressure did not work for 18 years, and all of a sudden it "clicked"?

That's right. Until 1989, Israel was part of anti-Soviet coalition and therefore untouchable. But in the 1990's, pressure was exercised to end the Middle East conflict once and for all. The Oslo Agreement was also part of that.

So, if HezbAllah was victorious, does that mean there were no Lebanese killed?

If Hezbollah was victorious, nobody would see them as VICTIMS and felt sorry for them. Does anybody feel sorry for Stalin and his NKVD killers ? Many NKVD officers died in World War II as well, but nobody sees them as victims, only as butchers.

The Israelis can't kill them all.
Oh... how comforting...


It is. There is safety in numbers. Jews don't have that comfort. There is very few of them.

But such wording as you use implies that Israel is not perpetrating ethnic cleansing (of the Palestinians).

I don't have to imply it. And if there is ethnic cleansing, it's not very successful, because the Palestinian population in the occupied territories is actually INCREASING...

That's why they withdrew from the Golan? The West Bank? And actually, I am inclined to add the Gaza Strip to that list once again....

Nobody in the West ever pressured Israel to withdraw from Golan. Syria is a totalitarian regime and it has zero sympathy in the West. Democratic Lebanon is different (except for Hezbollah). West Bank and Gaza is a work-in-progress. It was only THIS YEAR that Palestinians had their FIRST democratic election (why did they waited 60 years we will never know). It will take a few years for the West's sympathy to follow this slow democratization process...

Jae said...

I hate the loss of life. I hate that innocents become political chips in a neverending war where the sides can't seem to find common ground. Still, these are interesting comments. I am learning quite a bit. My take on this is typically American. I dated a Jewish woman who said Israel is embattled and it doesn't matter how much they land the retreat from, it will never be enough since their enemies want them gone. But, I am appalled by that nation's leaders actions in this as well. And, as I research more, the influence they have on this government amazes me.

sonia said...

Marxist from Lebanon,

What is wrong with the Soviet Union collapsing and being someone's worse day in his life? Plenty of people considered the Soviet Union at least a check point against U.S. imperialism, or you do not regard U.S. is not an imperialist country? Not that I am defending Soviet Union (unless you want to tackle the issue from 1917 - 1924)

That statement proves that you either don't know ANYTHING about the Soviet history, or that you aren't really a Marxist, but a supporter of totalitarian oppression. It deservers a more extensive retort, which I wrote here.

beatroot said...

Anarchist said:
the presence of the L.A in the south might JUST spark a civil war - that's according to Israeli leadership's wet dreams anyway)

Admitidly the Israeli government’s actions have not been rational. But they have been irrational because they have been acting against the interest of Israelis.

Starting a civic war in Lebanon would not be in Israel’s interests. How could it be.

But Olmert’s government – based on a Sharon’s party that had no ideological characteristics except security security security ( like the West in more concentrated form) – is now in the shit because they screwed things up soo badly in this supposed ‘planned’ war.

beatroot said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
beatroot said...

On the comment by our Leb marxist frend about what was so bad about Galloway saying 'the day the Soviet Union died was the 'sadest of his life'....there is a good post on Sonia Belle's blog which has some issues I think many on what is left of the 'left' have to still, amazingly, to come to terms with.

The Soviet's were a bunch of losers....

http://sonia-belle.blogspot.com/

MarxistFromLebanon said...

Sonia

First of all, the Palestinians till the Oslo agreement did not have anything.

Second, the Oslo agreement meant Palestine declines most of its land to Israel

third, define democractic in your sense? Does USA pitching in 16 m $ to Fateh is democractic?

Fourth, till now you saw my comment without noticing under what context I was writing? It is totally hilarious, I am a Trotskyst, not that I need to defend myself against your opinion (or ever bothered to read my blog), but regarding Gallaway, I was saying that each has an opinion on the matter. Plenty of people regarded the Soviet Union was a check point to USA does that make me a Stalinist? I oppose all leaders, you might see me writing regarding Hezbollah or something and assume I am "defending them", but I am just setting up the facts to people who do nothing but sit and live in the skies.

Beatroot, you got my pity, because till now you never bothered to reply to any of my around 20 points, but keep trying to find a glitch out of the blues...

/me pats on your head

Read my blog then be sarcastic... personally I think you and few others got nothing better to do but simply enter a scholastic arguement without listening to the other.

No matter what I will say, you will remain biased specially that you do not defend any of the points I direct towards you but tend to switch curves in order to desperately find a point to critique me :p

Again Beatroot, if you do not believe in class struggle and internationalism, then you do not qualify as even a lefty

Hasta La Victoria Siempre
Marxist From Lebanon

beatroot said...

I have responded to the points I think are relevant. Particularly your inability to see the changes politically that have happened in the last 20 years in the middle east and elsewhere. A common failure with people who say they are Trotsky etc.

You talk about me being scholaristic but that is exactly what you are being. You cannot adapt politics to changing circumstance. I did quite some time ago.

And going on about being a Trotsky is meaningless without political action Joining NGOs is not political action. It’s humanitarian. There is a difference.

I never called myself a lefty. That kind of politics is dead.

beakerkin said...

Renegade

Have a talk with your dog. He seems to be unable to follow instructions.

MarxistFromLebanon said...

beakerkin

I follow no one, so thank you for the "respectful" word.

Angry Anarchist said...

Starting a civic war in Lebanon would not be in Israel’s interests. How could it be.
Very simple. It would expose HezbAllah's "back" to fire. Is fighting on two (or more) fronts easier than fighting on one? In fact, the timing of the capturing of the 2 soldiers was such that HezbAllah opened a 2nd front for Israel. The practical implications were that Israel had to pull its "experienced" troops back and conduct massive redeployment at massive costs, at the same time "easing" its campaign in Gaza...

Marxist in Lebanon,

if you do not believe in class struggle and internationalism, then you do not qualify as even a lefty
And who defines what a leftist is? PLEASE. Really, if you have a bone to pick with those who deviate from your version of leftism, do so by debating not by making blanket REACTIONARY statements.

sonia said...

Marxist From Lebanon,

Palestinians till the Oslo agreement did not have anything.

They still don't have anything, but it's partly their fault (say 60% Israeli fault, 40% Palestinian fault, and O% Western fault). First, they have to put THEIR house in order, develop truly democratic institutions (the recent Hamas election was a step in the right direction), control the rogue elements and defend the freedom of speech (without it, democracy is a sham). Then - and only then - can they start deciding what to do with the Israelis (fight, negociate, surrender, etc.)

Oslo agreement meant Palestine declines most of its land to Israel

That's what happens when you loose wars. You loose land. Everybody does, not just Palestinians. If you don't want to loose land, don't fight wars that you might loose...

define democractic in your sense?

US, Canada, Europe, Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, India, Australia, South Africa, most of Latin America, Turkey, Iraq, Israel, Palestine, Lebanon - democratic.

Iran, Jordan, Morocco, Russia - partly democratic.

Venezuela - still democratic, but slowly moving towards dictatorship.

Zimbabwe - pretending to be democratic, but already a dictatorship

Syria, Libya, Saudi Arabia, China, Pakistan, Cuba, North Korea, Burma, Belarus - dictatorships.

I oppose all leaders

I don't. I support democratically-elected leaders and I wish they would get together and overthrow ALL dictators, leftist and rightist...

CB said...

Sonia,

Give em hell! They aren't ready, they can't handle you!

troutsky said...

Try turning off the Patton movie CB. As for losing your land when you lose a war, this is generally recognized as a lousy formula for creating a lasting peace (and why international law forbids it)The US didn't conquer and claim Japan or Germany for a very good reason (instead re-built)and look what happened to Russias efforts at expansion.

This whole premis of Israel as the poor victim, the beleaguered and vulnerable outpost of justice and democracy is a holocaust holdover, no longer relevent now that it is one of the worlds largest militaries, possesing nuclear weapons and with superpowers as allies.Let it go.It's like the US being terrified Mexico is going to reclaim its land.

While the left and right hold democracy out as the sacred talisman which magically creates peace, there is disagreement and a necessary debate over what might constitute true democracy and whether it can exist under capitalism.

Jae said...

This is unconscionable... not just the despicable weapons, but the timing

"UN humanitarian chief Jan Egeland said that thousands of civilians were at risk in south Lebanon from unexploded cluster bombs dropped by Israeli forces in the last three days of the war against Hezbollah guerrillas.


He said the UN Mine Action Coordination Center had assessed "nearly 85 percent of bombed areas in south Lebanon" and identified "359 separate cluster bomb strike locations that are contaminated with as many 100,000 unexploded bomblets."

"What's shocking and I would say completely immoral is that 90 percent of the cluster bomb strikes occurred in the last 72 hours of the conflict when we knew there would be a resolution, when we knew there would be an end," he said.

"Every day, people are maimed, wounded and are killed by these ordnances," the UN relief coordinator said.

beakerkin said...

Renegade

Have a talk with your dog. Remind him the Purple Avenger is off limits. He seems to want to provoke round two.

I prefer to blog in peace and see hide nor hair of your mindless canine, John Brown.

Have a good evening.

sonia said...

Troutsky,

democracy out as the sacred talisman which magically creates peace (...) debate over what might constitute true democracy and whether it can exist under capitalism

It's a myth that democracy creates peace. Most countries that fought in WWI were quite democratic, thank you, and it was the elected nationalistic politicians in Russia, Germany, Austria, France and England that were pushing for war over the objections of their kings, tsars, emperors and kaisers (who were all married to each other's sisters and aunts)...

Democracy is good in and of itself, not because it leads to peace. In fact, the opposite is true. It's peace that leads to democracy... And democracy can only exist under free market system (i.e. capitalism). If people are totally dependent on the state for survival (i.e. socialism), people in power can easily squash any opposition movement.

Boogski said...

Sonia said:

They (Palestinians) still don't have anything, but it's partly their fault (say 60% Israeli fault, 40% Palestinian fault, and O% Western fault). First, they have to put THEIR house in order, develop truly democratic institutions (the recent Hamas election was a step in the right direction), control the rogue elements and defend the freedom of speech (without it, democracy is a sham).

To me, Hamas seems like just anouther Islamist organisation. Not all that different from Hizb'allah (party of "God"). These assholes don't give two shits about things like freedom of speech. With all due respect, I don't understand why you think the Palestinians electing those Hamas goofballs is a step in the right direction.

MarxistFromLebanon said...

Sonia

What do you mean it is 0% European Fault? Let us remember history a bit: Palestine in 1920 had 9 % Arabs, all Jewish importations by the Zionists occured with British Blessings. You might consider reading Bitter Harvest for Sami Hidawi, Birth of the Palestinian Refugee Problem by Benny Morris, or From Conquest to Haven by Walid Khalidi.

The Balfour announcement is what gave the Zionists a clear green light to bring forth Jews to Palestine. Use your logic a bit: 9% Jews 91% Non-Jews should give you a clue where I am heading with my talks.

The By 1929, after the wailing wall incident, several British representatives argued that the Arabs had no means to represent themseleves or express themselves except through fighting.

Think of it that way, you are sitting in your house and reading your newspaper: suddenly bunch of soldiers come in, kick you out of your house, kill all your family, and you are on the street pennyless, what do you do? Give flowers? That was the case? Only difference then that British Imperialism didn't allow you do crap, not even a peaceful demonstration while the Zionists by 1937 were being trained into Night Squads. In the end, we are being viewed from an imperialist perspective and in a reductionist manner.

As for the Palestinians voting for Hammas, remember the opponents were also US's most hated at a one time who are Fateh. Once Bush administration decided to support Fateh, in defecto the Palestinians voted for Hammas not out of love for them, but out of hatred to US foreign policy which is never objective.

If we dwell a bit on the matter: the media is over covering Israeli "victims" compared to the dozens of Palestinians being killed. You got a whole nation got eradicated and you expect them to be "peaceful" and organized? How can that happen?

The first step for me is having a secular government rather a Zionist racist government in the Israeli side, that perhaps would give at least the path for interaction between both sides even though it was the Zionists who kicked out the Palestinians outside their houses in 1948 without a place to go and mind you IDF soldiers robbed the refugees and hence were also pennyless.

Why do you think there are Palestinian camps in Lebanon since 1948? Because the Palestinians are born evil? This is an Orientalist perspective towards the Palestinians. Just because Israel is non=Arab and US administrations support it, directly you assume they are the angels who are defending themselves, which is not true. You can not judge the issue without dwelling into details and mind you not only from a Zionist perspective, but from a Palestinian Perspective, US administration perspective, British Perspective (during mandate), and so on.

Boogsi

Then why the heck we have night clubs? Why annahar or Daily Star in Lebanon attack freely Hezbolluah if we didn't have freedom of speech? Again, it amuses me how people grab an idea by its tail and judge, or to be exact copy paste what they hear like parrots.

So tell me Boogsi, is it logical to have a huge portion of the Palestinian ministry kidnapped by Zionists without being held accountable?

In the end, and that is what is bothering me, none of you listen to the other and simply formulate judgements without the essence to accept anything,

Sonia, it was the United States and Stalinist Soviet Union that pushed for the formation of Israel. The Zionists swithced allegiance to the USA as Britian lost its ability to run its empire. It is the Zionists who assasinated Count Bernadotte of the UN commission who came to investigate the situation and your buddies keep telling me it is justified because to some "Jews" are more civilized than "Arabs".

Well, I hope one day you all visit Palestine and live for 24 hours to see the hell they live through then tell me what do you think.

Anti-Western Superiority and Pro Equality: Yours Truely

MFL

sonia said...

Marxist From Lebanon,

You got a whole nation got eradicated and you expect them to be "peaceful" and organized? How can that happen?

I don't expect them to be peaceful. But I do expect them to be organized and democratic. Otherwise, they don't deserve to survive. It's a Darwinian world out there. People who let themselves be oppressed by their own leaders cannot be expected to have the courage and intelligence to resist FOREIGN oppression. They are already slaves of totalitarian leaders (Saddam, Khaddaffi, Assad) - it's not people like that that can resist Zionist oppression.

MarxistFromLebanon said...

hello

peaceful and democractic? Didn't you notice that all of them have been subjugated to Western Colonialism?

As for Palestine? How do you expect people who lived for 50 years in camps to be that organized? Democractic is a lately a Neo-Con "Bush" citation a la Hollywood style. If foreign powers do not intervene or did not intervene in the first place then they would, so tell me again, when will you be objective for once and study the background of the people rather carry the banner of Western Superiority?

Funny, try be a democractic with an F16 bombing your house, hopefully one day you go to Palestine and live there and see for yourself about the feasibility of your theories

Revolutionary Yours
Marxist From Lebanon

PS: aren't we talking of the same democracy that is starving 2 billion people, and forcing 1 billion child not to have one of the 5 basic needs, and 1.2 billion living in what the WHO considers below livable standards?! Fascinating!! :D

troutsky said...

Sonia, if "peace leads to democracy" ,would Germany, France and England be "democracies" that emerged from WW1 as exceptions to that rule? We may be doing a chicken and egg thing here but since there has never existed a peace or democracy (maybe the Paris Commune or Spain in 36 ever so briefly)it is theoretical speculation at best. I would like to create both (perhaps simultaneously!) but when a Pope, King, Czar,capitalists, Party or Corporate State have overwhelming power, the democracy is a sham (bourgeoise democracy).

If the People are the State (socialism), itis difficult for them to oppress themselves.I saw in your bio yu were "turned" by reading one book.I must read it.

CB said...

troutsky,

I'm gonna put my skirt back on and pick up the pom poms again. Except for that Darwin comment (he has been TOTALLY debunked) you guys can't handle Sonia!

Boogski said...

MarxistFromLebanon said:

Then why the heck we have night clubs? Why annahar or Daily Star in Lebanon attack freely Hezbolluah if we didn't have freedom of speech? Again, it amuses me how people grab an idea by its tail and judge, or to be exact copy paste what they hear like parrots.

So tell me Boogsi, is it logical to have a huge portion of the Palestinian ministry kidnapped by Zionists without being held accountable?


Hizb'allah doesn't control nightlife and the party scene in Lebanon...YET. But you can bet your ass that if they did, those Night Clubs you're bragging about would be padlocked in a skinny minute. They are Islamists! How can you be a Marxist and not realise that their world view is simply not compatible with Marxism? Are you ready to be FORCED to "pray to Allah" 5 times a day, MFL? How the fuck is that backwards crap going the feed the starving children in Africa? How is wasting time memorising the Qur'an going to help cure AIDS?

The Press in Lebanon has "attacked" Hizb'allah? Yeah..Right. I challenge you to show me ONE scathing attack on Hizb'allah from the Daily Star. Mild criticism doesn't count.

And I ask you, is it "logical" to attack a country who possesses vastly superior military technology? Every single one of those buildings the Israelis destroyed would still be standing tall if it wasn't for Hisb'allah. Every single person killed by Israel would be alive today if it wasn't for Hizb'allah.

"party of God" my ass.

MarxistFromLebanon said...

lol, for starter, the fire power they got and their christian armed allies, they could have ages ago.

as for critique, mate plenty of Lebanese FOrces or independent figures attacked Hezbollah clearly and in the middle of the war for not consulting the government. Heck, you should have watched Junblatt's speech last week, or Hezbollah's MP Hussein Hajj Hassan being accused as Muppet for Syria and should go to live in Damascus.

Just google and you will find what you want. Actually some articles appeared in annahar saying: "What the Shiites want" or "Will Presents keep coming to Lebanon from Israel and Syria?"

Praying five times a day is religius and not Hezbollah, unless you are a religious racist person. I am considered a Christian on my ID and my baptist name is Alexis. I have no problem with any religion. I totally opposed their practice, but I do not see "backwardness" the way you do because again you are being biased with a superior "Western" view. If anything it is the "West" that starved Africa due to centuries of Colonialism (may I remind you that S. Africa till 1994 had its first elections?) Just as people memorize the Old or New Testament, it is the same logic btw... a holy scripture is a holy scripture, and not all memorize as you think, actually only those who specialize in theology memorize their holy script. Besides Allah means God, the same worshipped by three religions, unless you want to divide that, then you got a racist problem, then go stand next to Hitler.

The 3rd world had been just a source of raw material and hence the West hindered its societal evolution.

BTW, you mean to tell me that Israel that possess the technology to seperate between Civilian and military killed over 1100 citizens is justified? Already Israel negotiated back in 2003 exchange prisoner exchange when 3 IDF were kidnapped on Lebanese soil, they just needed an excuse to bomb Lebanon as Rice was talking about the "New Middle East"

Except for CB attempting in an academic manner but chose the wrong article to judge, most of you are speaking based on what you hear on CNN or ABC... my pity :)

MFL

PS: did you boogsie bother to check the links I posted?

sonia said...

Troutsky,

I saw in your bio you were "turned" by reading one book.I must read it.

Unfortunately, it was never translated into English...

Marxist From Lebanon,

I do not see "backwardness" the way you do because again you are being biased with a superior "Western" view

I actually agree with you here, but there is nothing 'Western' about democracy. Iran is more democratic than Hezbollah, and they are both equally anti-Western. It's ironic that in Iraq, the Shiites are democratic while Sunnis are totalitarian, but in Lebanon it's just the opposite.

What is 'backward', however, is to hate one particular country so much that you reject democracy just to spite it, as if by adopting democracy, you were doing the Yanks or the Israelis a favor.

Democracy is not necessarily pro-American. Democracy is the humility to accept a verdict of YOUR OWN PEOPLE that you yourself might disagree with. Democracy is when the Nicaraguan people told the Sandinistas 'we don't want to fight the Americans anymore, we want peace'. But democracy is also when the Bolivian people told the World 'we want to grow coca even if Washington will be angry about it'. Democracy is also when the Palestinian people told their Al Fatah leaders 'we don't want your corruption. And democracy is also when the Iraqi people told the Baathists 'we prefer to be ruled by pro-American collaborators than by national socialists like you'.

Death to those who want to stop democracy, whether they are in Washington, in Fallujah or in a cave in Afghanistan...

And support for those who spread democracy, whether they are in Washington, in Baghdad or in La Paz...

furtherleft said...

Renegade Eye,

Thank you for the Sept. 1 Further Left Forum comment. It has been converted to a normal post. Your inclusion of, ... " A colorful team for sure.", made attaching our team photo seem appropriate. Your continued participation on Further Left Forum is welcomed. You might also be interested in visiting, reading, and taking what you wish from its Library. The Chat Room is a good place to come to know one another. Both are also linked from the Forum.

furtherleft

Boogski said...

What I don't understand, MFL, is why is ANYONE attacking Israel from Lebanese soil? The Israelis withdrew from your Country years ago. You guys should run those Qur'an thumping Hizb'allah fuckers right out of your Country! If your government isn't addressing your needs, then take it up with your elected officials. Why do you suck up to those low-life Islamist bastards?

It's clear from your words that you don't even believe Israel has a right to exist, MFL. The minute someone starts bitching about what happened in 1948, they're busted.

So you're "considered" a Christian, eh? God help you if you are "actually" a Christian. It might upset your Muslim overlords. They might request that you "revert" to Islam at gunpoint. Barbaric scumbags.

MarxistFromLebanon said...

Dearest Sonia

I apologize for sounding rude earlier, but put yourself in my shoes :)

For starters, Nicaragua suffered from the biggest massacre when the socialists made it to power (Chomsky: Pirates old and new)... excluding the supported coup. For example, the first to threaten US administration was Salvador Allende, because he was the first democractic elected president which resulted in a coup d'etat by Pinochet publicly supported by the USA... hence Democracy in two cases been violated.

Second, Democracy in its true essence is a must, I agree, but we both know that this is impossible in these days, specially in the ex-colonial areas that lost its cutting edge by entering very late to the capitalist market and hence for ever be divided... after all it was the imperial forces that forged their system: an elite to rule ruthlessly in order to secure exporting free of cost and expense raw materials, and become in turn markets as well.

Fourth, you mentioned earlier that you do not expect the Palestinians to be peaceful specially a whole nation was kicked out with US-UK-USSR blessing. Again, you can't expect democracy over the remaining survivors of zionist massacres to be democractic. Think of it from their eyes, you lose your husband, your children are killed, your house is torn down, you move to an old tin house, and again it is torn down. IAF planes hovering above your heads, you have no electricity, barely clean water due to IDF brutality, how peaceful your mind can be? If you want read a post on my blog what my mother (a Christian Palestinian) had to go through due to zionist racism. Besides, isn't the kicking of the Palestinians out of their homes in 1948 the very breach of democracy, specially till now they were never compensated nor the Israeli government held accountable for all those massacres? At least please stress on this dimension a bit.

Now Boogsi

You preach democracy, but you refute to accept a religious sect. It is the same when Hitler decided to refute the Jews from his Third empire, which is exactly the same.

Second, I do not your pity as till now no Muslim as offended me due to my sect belonging. Like I said, the media got you entrapped and engulfed in hatred. Just today, all the political blocks (extreme Christians and Muslims) in the parlaiment will all be holding hands against Israel. Even Samir Jaajaa (head of the christian Lebanese Forces) will be part of it against Israel and in solidarity to Lebanon, that should some light on what is going on.

Three years ago, some blocks proposed Islam studies in the public schools, it got refuted for: either integrating Christian and Muslim teachings as both religions preaching the same God (as the Pope of Rome and the Greek Orthodox Arch-Bishop in Antioch themselves) acknowledged this fact centuries ago. Heck, even your "beloved" war criminal Bush said so exactly 24 hours after 9/11.

By the way, the President has always been elected a Christian, that should give you an idea also. Lebanon is made of around 35% Christians afterall. If you think they enforce on us values, you are wrong. We lived a civil war, mind you not only christians butchering muslims or vice versa, but christians butchering each other in name of Christ, and same applied to the other side. Again, just as Muslims accept your rituals, you should do the same... hence at least in Lebanon, they are proving themselves they are much superior to you in terms of social interactions.

TO continue, it amazes me how people focus on the two soldiers. Two soldiers are not an excuse to commit a war crime of over 1100 Lebanese civilian, specially I would say it for I do not know how much over here since some people barely like to listen, what about all the violations Israel did post-2000. What about the Lebanese prisoners, the kidnapped fishermen, the sudden bombings of the South. From 2000 - 2006, at least Hezbollah bombed the last occupied part of Lebanon: Shebaa, Israel responed with the bombings of the South (and mind you their war is not with Muslims as your racist eyes think, but with Lebanese despite any religion).

At least now I am a bit happy that me and the moderate ones are getting somewhere, but I pity the isolationists and extremists. They live in Plato's cave.

Best Regards
MFL

PS: www.samidoun.org is being active online again so check the updates friends and help the Lebanese refugess, 200,000 lebanese are homeless. Now I go with Green Line to help in the Oil Spill clean up

sonia said...

Marxist From Lebanon,

Salvador Allende, because he was the first democractic elected president

That's not true. Chile had a stable, pro-American democracy before Allende, who was actually THE LAST democratically elected president (until 1990, of course)...

And I know that the US doesn't always support democracy - more reason for you to support democracy, and more reason for all of us to support the US in those RARE times when they actually support democracy (Iraq, for example)...

you can't expect democracy over the remaining survivors of zionist massacres to be democractic.

Yes I can! It's precisely because they suffer and their lives are in danger, that they shouldn't allow themselves to be enslaved by their own leaders as well... When Nazi bombs were destroying London in 1940, the British people didn't told Churchill, 'please impose a totalitarian dictatorship on us, we will obey you without thinking'. Instead, they maintained a free press, criticized Churchill when he deserved it, and voted him out the second the war was over. The Arabs fighting Israel should do the same. Then, they would have a chance of winning, by putting pressure on their leaders to be smart and effective. Right now, it's the Arab leaders who maintain pressure on their own people to be blindly obedient and passive. Such people can never a win a war. Slaves make bad soldiers, that's why Arabs lost in 1948, 1956, 1967, etc. - slaves of Arab kings and later Arab dictators were fighting FREE PEOPLE.

isn't the kicking of the Palestinians out of their homes in 1948 the very breach of democracy

Apples and oranges. It would have been a breach of democracy if an Israeli DICTATOR had expelled the Palestinians. But the Palestinians were expelled by a democratically-elected Israeli government that had the support of the majority of the Israelis. That made this action legitimate.

If the Arabs states become democratic, and then they win the war against Israel, the Arab people likewise might have an opportunity to DEMOCRATICALLY expel the Israelis from Israel. And that action too will be legitimate. Tit for tat.

Boogski said...

Tell me, MFL. What's the ratio of Christians to Muslims on the southern border of your Country? Is it 1/3 Christian as the picture you're attempting to paint would indicate? I doubt it.

Why don't your Muslim buddies just leave Israel alone? Seems sensible and logical to me. It's obvious they're not going ANYWHERE. So why keep picking at them? I don't have to "be there" to deduce that, if you don't fuck with Israel, chances are they won't fuck with you.

Let that sink in for a bit. Really.

And Sonia, Israel was there, is there, and will certainly be there for the rest of your life. That's just the way that it is.

sonia said...

Boogski,

Israel was there, is there, and will certainly be there.... as long as Arab countries are run by unelected totalitarian dictators like Saddam, Assad or Khadafi... but the day the Arabs will start to freely ELECT their leaders... watch out!!

Angry Anarchist said...

What's the ratio of Christians to Muslims on the southern border of your Country?
Who cares? Seriously. What difference does it make??

if you don't fuck with Israel, chances are they won't fuck with you.
1982 tells a different story. As does Israel's continuous instigations of the Palestinians, and when the Palestinians react, the Israelis begin to whine about terrorism. Tell me, who exactly was holding the fire when Israel was continuously shelling Gaza? Was it Hamas by any chance?

as long as Arab countries are run by unelected totalitarian dictators like Saddam, Assad or Khadafi...
Exactly. But, you forgot Abdullah of Jordan and Mubarak of Egypt. Or maybe those are part of the "dictators we love"?

artie said...

Hey, your comments link isn't working on your Rivera/Rockefellar post. I've always wanted to go to Mexico to study Rivera's and Kahlo's paintings and murals. And of course their story is one of the best examples of the truth being stranger than most anything one would invent. - dd

sphinx said...

I can't believe I read all of this. But moreso, it's quite stunning to read people condemning Israeli brutality but then rushing to defend the Soviet Union as a 'check' against the post-war American-allied capitalist states. Are you even familiar with the Soviet role in Afghanistan for instance? And yes, that role includes the most secular and progressive Kabul that the world has ever seen but it also involved a brutal war in the countryside which involved turning tribes and groups that would cooperate with the Soviet occupation against those who would not. Now obviously I'm not backing the Mujahideen here, what I'm pointing out is what this counter-imperialism really meant for people on the ground. Face it, the USSR was neither socialist nor communist, and thus faced the same pressure to engage in imperialism as other capitalist countries.

The same logic could be applied to Hezbollah, an organization which rounds up gay people and delivers them to the police, and is obviously anti-semitic. Hezbollah is a 'check' to Israeli aggression in Syria (or something), even though most Israelis don't want anything to do with Lebanon anymore and in fact much of the reason the first war collapsed was because the Israeli working class refused the escalating logic that they were being thrown into.

But I don't want to waste much time on this pap. Anyone who defends George Galloway's 'glorification of Hezbollah' has truly NOT made a choice for class struggle but the very opposite, is engaged in the classic bourgeois shuffle for position, in which the group that can mobilize the greatest number with the lowest common denominator is the 'progressive step'. That's why RESPECT can't avoid pandering to holocaust deniers and homophobes, and how unfortunately, our Marxist here can't either. I'll also add how hilarious it is to read an 'anarchist' defending Hizbollah and having 'some' criticisms of the soviet union. Wow.

Lastly, a statement from some Turkish internationalists, who don't content themselves with the 'lesser evil' politics so obviously on display here.

On the Situation in Lebanon and Palestine

On July 12, right after the kidnapping of Israeli soldiers by the Hizbollah, Israeli president Ehud Olmert promised Lebanon a “very painful and far-reaching response”. During the early hours of July 13, the State of Israel started an invasion and pushed its working class into another nationalist and imperialist war. The Israeli state started this invasion for its own interests and without caring about the blood that would be shed. In fifteen days, about four hundred Lebanese civilians lost their lives. Not even the current ceasefire guarantees that the massacres won’t start again as the Israeli state showed that it would destroy anything threatening its own interests, not only with the last conflict but with the ongoing torture of the Palestinians.

Yet, it should not be forgotten that Israel is not the only side responsible for this conflict. Neither Hizbollah, which is attracting the attention of the world nowadays with the fight they gave to the Israelis with a violence that could match their own, nor the PLO and Hamas who have been carrying out a nationalist war in Palestine for years, can be considered ‘clean’. Hizbollah, which was the excuse Israel showed the world before the beginning of the conflict, killed Israeli civilians with rockets provided by Syria and Iran throughout the war. Hizbollah is an anti-Semitic and religious fundamentalist organisation. Most importantly, contrary to what some think, Hizbollah did not fight to protect the Lebanese; instead Hizbollah forced the Lebanese working class to join a nationalist front for its own interests, and it struggled only for the territories they controlled and the authority they had. The PLO which pushed the Palestinian workers from class struggle into the claws of their national bourgeoisie, and Hamas which is an organisation that is as reactionary, violent, anti-Semitic and religiously fundamentalist as Hizbollah, also act only for their own interests.

At this point, it is necessary to briefly describe imperialism. Contrary to what most people think, imperialism is not a policy strong nation states practice in order to take over weak nation states’ resources. Instead it is the policy of a nation state, or an organisation that functions as a nation state, that controls a certain territory, resources on that territory and authority over the population in that territory. To phrase it simply, imperialism is the natural policy any nation state, or organisation that functions as a nation state, practices. As we have seen in the last conflict between Israel and Hizbollah, in some situations nation states or organisations functioning as nation states have clashing interests, and this clash finally reaches the point of an inter-imperialist war.

As the situation is like this, what leftists in Turkey and the world are saying becomes even more ridiculous and inconsistent. Both in Turkey and the world, a great majority of leftists have given full support to the PLO and Hamas. In the latest conflict they become one voice and said “We are all Hizbollah”. By following the logic of saying ‘the enemy of my enemy is my friend’, they fully embraced this violent organisation which pushed its working class into a disastrous nationalist war. The support leftists gave to nationalism shows us why leftists don’t have much to say that is different from what parties like MHP (Nationalist Movement Party – the fascist Grey Wolves) not only on Hizbollah, PLO and Hamas, but on many other subjects. Especially in Turkey, leftists don’t have any idea what they are talking about.

Both the war between Hizbollah and Israel and the war in Palestine are inter-imperialist wars and all sides use nationalism to draw workers in their territories onto their sides. The more workers get sucked up into nationalism, the more they will lose the ability to act as a class. This is why neither Israel, nor Hizbollah, nor PLO nor Hamas should be supported under any circumstances. What should be supported during this conflict is the workers’ struggle to survive, not nationalist organisations or states that are getting them killed. Yet more importantly, what should be done in Turkey is to work for class consciousness and class struggle that will develop here. Imperialism and capitalism bind all countries together; this is why national independence is impossible. Only workers’ struggle for their own needs can provide an answer.

For Internationalism and Workers Struggle!

Enternasyonalist Komünist Sol, 1/9/06.

sonia said...

Sphinx,

Bravo! An extremely lucid and perfectly logical argument. But don't expect too many 'leftists' to follow it. Like in Germany in 1933, the so-called 'leftists' are already marching in goose-step with their Nazi comrades towards another Auschwitz and another Hiroshima.

Angry Anarchist said...

Hizbollah, which was the excuse Israel showed the world before the beginning of the conflict
Not quite so. I would challenge the reason the author mentions this. Israel has been the aggressor even when there was no HezbAllah, even when the assassination attempt in London was not the doing of PLO elements based in Lebanon (re: pretext for 1982 invasion), and so on. The problem is not HezbAllah's existence as some self-identified leftists claim it is, the problem is with Israel's constant manipulation of events to find pretexts for aggression. In fact, I have been coming under constant fire from some so-called anarchists who hail the ISRAELI ANARCHISTS' (sic) denouncement of their government, while insisting that LEBANESE ANARCHISTS (sic) (reference to me) fail to denounce HezbAllah. First of all, there is a failure on their part to realize that the fight between Israel and HezbAllah is a state vs non-state actor scenario, and in any such scenario, anarchists cannot but take the side of the non-state actor, though not endorse its agenda/objectives, for the sole reason that anarchists are not merely against the authority of the state but against all forms of authority and subjugation. This shows how little understanding some self-identified leftists and anarchists have of the core of the ideology that they claim to espouse.

killed Israeli civilians with rockets provided by Syria and Iran throughout the war.
Why are the Syrian/Iranian elements emphasized? Israel is killing civilians with rockets provided by the U.S. But the purpose in mentioning this is something more sinister. The purpose is to make a nationalist argument, that Syria and Iran are using Lebanon, or, functioning through a non-state actor in Lebanon (the author perhaps believes in the necessity of the state having the sole monopoly on violence) against Lebanese "interests".

MarxistFromLebanon said...

Dear Sonia, I apologize for taking me so long to reply as I was busy in life for refugee relief aid for the homeless. I will start with your earlier post:

You say that we should support the United States in Iraq? This totally contradict your logic of democracy. The United States and UK invaded Iraq not to bring democracy to the Iraqis, rather to destroy weaponry of mass destruction, which the US and UK did not find in Iraq after invading Iraq and switched to "promoting democracy". In any case, democracy is never ever promoted by invasions, it is promoted by the emancipation of the working class to their rights. The United States and the whole Europe passed through the Union revolutions in order to reach its democractic form while it kept third world nations belated to enter the global system.

Again Sonia, you are using your racist supremism. In Palestine, it is no longer the question of democracy, it is the question of pushing starvation since plenty of Palestinians are facing the problem of getting bread. Israel would never allow a democractic Palestine, while you give it the right that it can oust and kill anyone because it is democractic. Racism is not democracy, and no democracy includes eliminating a whole nation. Again, you are hiding behind the Neo-Con ideology to support a full scale war on us.

Democracy means every life counts, not giving legitimacy to kill others. You have to admit, democractic nations behave sometimes as brutal as the non-democractic (USA in vietnam, Nicaragua, Guatinama, and so on, United Kingdom in South Africa...etc). Remember the closest allies to the United States are not democractic and supported by them: Qatar and Saudi Arabia and Kuwait.

Ironically, Lebanon and Syria knew democracy since early 1930s, and full scale democracy after 1944, and you can't just throw people who earned their popularity in the sea like Hezbollah because it does not fit your "criteria". Their allies are christians and so on, and they run into mutual agendas. I am not defending Hezbollah like you are defending your "racist democracy" but I am getting your facts clear since again you do not bother to do a full scale research and get your information objectively.

For example, did you know that it was the United States that created Taliban and Bin Laden in the 1980s and called the Jihad Democractic? Did you know that Saddam was labeled the symbol of democracy in the 1980s in the Arab World as he waged his war on Iran by US blessing? Technically the USA should be held accountable as well for the war between Iran and Iraq.

Personally, your "democracy" can never take place from above, my democracy is emancipation from below and taking power to above. Your democracy is bow down to the West and dump everyone in the sea who do not disagree, especially the Islamists, while mine is to emanicipate them into secular forces. Your hatred towards them (specially there are different categories) does not make you different than the Qaeda because both based on hatred. They hide it in virtue, you hide it in democracy.

As for our Turkish comrade:

greetings from Lebanon comrade and good luck with your struggle in Turkey. I lived for 3 monthes of my life over there back in 1989.

Sphinx, in a 100% Utopian world I agree, but I said some people viewed USSR as a checkpoint. I already said it was a Stalinist Russian Nationalist nation. Galloway is hailed as a hero over here not for his Socialist ideas but for reflecting exactly what is going on in Lebanon to the Media 100% and remember we were shut down by the media in case you didn't notice 85% covering Israel while barely 15% on Lebanon disregarding the attrocities committed over here by the IDF.

MFL

MarxistFromLebanon said...

oh yes one more thing to add, regarding Allende to Sonia dearest

I know Allende was not the first President to be elected in Latin America, but he was the first COMMUNIST president to be elected.

sonia said...

Marxist From Lebanon,

Democracy has nothing to do with the USA. It's a system in which the people in a country elect their own leaders. Those leaders can be good or nasty, pro-American or anti-American, smart or stupid. It doesn't matter. What does matter is that in a democracy people cannot blame others for their country's problems. They elected their leaders, so if their leaders are bad or incompetent, it's THEIR FAULT. In a dictatorships, blame is inevitably shifted towards foreigners who allegedly always manipulate the situation. And when you blame others for your own problems, no progress is possible.

I won't bother answering your charges of racism. Shame on you!

MarxistFromLebanon said...

Dear Sonia,

The Palestinians were never given any chance to have any of your "democracy". Nor lack of democracy allows people to shoot others as animals. So yes the blame goes first to the Zionists, second for the British, third equally to the USA and Soviet Union since both supported the Zionists in Palestine and later to be Israel, and fourth the world for keeping a shut eye on the matter.

Remember Democracy is a means and not an end in itself. Your logic is that you can carry a gun, and shoot me straight in the eye because I am accused of being undemocractic and you are.

Check Chapter 2 of my article: Lebanon, Israel, and Class Struggle, it does not dwell in details but should give you an incite on the matter:
http://marxistfromlebanon.blogspot.com/2006/08/lebanon-israel-and-class-s_115640733615919937.html

sphinx said...

I only have time tonight to point the obvious idiocies of our 'anarchist' friend. Although I am not an anarchist, I did once consider myself one and I respect anarchy as an independent revolutionary praxis that has had successes and failures. That said, many of its largest failures have come from idiotic assumptions like the following:

"First of all, there is a failure on their part to realize that the fight between Israel and HezbAllah is a state vs non-state actor scenario, and in any such scenario, anarchists cannot but take the side of the non-state actor, though not endorse its agenda/objectives, for the sole reason that anarchists are not merely against the authority of the state but against all forms of authority and subjugation. This shows how little understanding some self-identified leftists and anarchists have of the core of the ideology that they claim to espouse."

It never seems to occur to you that one cannot join up with a 'non-state actor' whose aims are state power, authority and subjugation, without furthering its aims of state power, authority and subjugation. First, let's clarify. There is no such thing as a non-state actor outside of an organization or action that seeks to end the state and capitalism. Any 'non-state actor' whether that is an NGO, an armed militia or a tribe, as long as its constituents are involved in commodity production and the political divisions that accompany that, or are put in charge of maintaining those relations, it is at once a guardian of these relations and a state-in-waiting which demonstrates state-like characteristics (expansion, imperialism). All non-state actors (militias etc.) in the middle east are fighting for a particular form of government based around commodity production alongside their larger narratives (except perhaps for the crass anti-capitalism of jaysh al-queda in Iraq). In other words, the state is a potential relation inside the mode of production: it is not something that dissapears because an organization is temporarily denied the influence of a state. Furthermore, Hezbollah HAS STATE POWER, it has since the 1990s when it started running campaigns for public office.

So none of your claims have any basis and you have no business chastising other anarchists or revolutionaries for not identifying with your ludicrous endorsements of Hezbollah. And though you will no doubt point out the eviction basis of the state of Israel, this doesn't stop you from making alliances with an organization whose entire armed presence is based on the unending fantasy of eviction of Jews from Israel (and maybe elsewhere).

Angry Anarchist said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Angry Anarchist said...

It never seems to occur to you that one cannot join up with a 'non-state actor' whose aims are state power, authority and subjugation, without furthering its aims of state power, authority and subjugation.
You can find the answer to that here (comment #4).

All you have to do is try harder, instead of using such wording as "idiot" to drive your point home. Since you claim to have thorough knowledge of the "tenets" of anarchism (I did not know that anarchists were supposed to fall in line and adopt one strategy and belief) do enlighten us as to how you intend to get rid of authoritarianism. From what I understood, to achieve your ends, you want to impose your (intellectual or otherwise) authority on me. Very interesting.

Really, I anxiously await your suggestions as to what should be done. But of course, when it comes to that, you and your like go into "contemplation" mode, make a few fallacious arguments and cheap shots, and disappear into thin air. The great obstacle is not the lack of ready-made tools to fight the tyranny of authority (which, as I already pointed out, you insist on adopting), as there are many, but the defeatism of those who claim they are ideologically oriented and principled but who do not see their hypocrisy in wanting to silence the few who would actually LIKE to see some change. I suggest that those who do not have a solution would shut up instead of going around proselytizing (for it seems that defeatism is your religion). If you are waiting for a bloodless "coup" I say, go ahead and join the forces of statehood, that way you would be doing something with your life other than waiting indefinitely. It is defeatists like you who have brought things to this point, strengthened the state so much that it is no longer realistic to pursue a relatively less bloody transformation. But I dare say you are more worried on the plight of the Jews than anything else. So to prevent the POSSIBILITY of their eviction, you would love to give absolute power to the forces that carry out evictions (but not of Jews). I suppose if someone is to be evicted, you would rather see the Arabs be evicted, and not Jews. To argue that HezbAllah and Israel should be put on the same level is the peak of defeatism. When you prefer to stick to ideology rather than practical realities you declare your lack of interest in taking anarchism a step beyond mere words on paper. It is people like you who legitimize the state. Only when you realize that your words and (lack of) actions are resulting in the complete opposite of what you claim you want, will you appreciate the importance of treating these two entities (that does not mean HezbAllah should not be attacked) differently. Or maybe you won't. After all, your tribal mentality and wording is pretty indicative of the ideologies you espouse.

politiques USA said...

I think it is a big problem in the US when people and their allies think they have to deliver other countries from their dictator and even democratically elected government, even if they have to kill a part of their population to remove any unfriendly sympathizers.
We keep forgetting that our western governments keep funding terrorism (against Iran, for Hamas, ... etc).

Here in the US we are allowed to criticize other nations but we barely can criticize our own institutions, we think or at least the US government think that many people in the rest of the world want to be like us; which is wrong and dangerous. This is how civilizations collapse when we don't want to learn anything from other people.
Also French are more revolutionnary than Americans. I belong to an intercultural thinktank and here is what an American guy living in France has to say about that:


The French spend much more time, energy and bile criticizing the French government and its policies than they do the U.S. or any other country! That is part of the revolutionary heritage. They would be even more vocal if the level of external criticism were greater, but few non-French seem concerned about French policies, even when they should be. I, for one, wish Africans and other people of the world would make a bigger issue out of France's post-colonial policies, as egregious in Africa today as they have been at any time since post-WWII decolonisation. But of course no one thinks or seems to care much about
Africa (except when there's a genocide as in Rwanda or Darfur; and this endemic indifference should be seen as a contributing factor to a
political culture where genocide is always possible).

The major difference with the U.S. is that, in France, criticizing the
government, venerable French institutions (such as the Grandes Ecoles)or businesses is never confused with criticizing the country, the culture or the people. That's what's extraordinary about the U.S.: the facility with which criticism of government policy is labeled as hatred of the country and its people. This is, of course, equally frustrating for U.S. citizens within the U.S. who are opposed to the current politics, but they seem to find that reflex a natural part of the political landscape, even though they themselves are victims of it.

Today's asymmetry in levels of criticism is linked to the fact that the U.S. is by far more active in other people's affairs than any other country, and therefore the behavior of the U.S. government is an issue they feel increasingly compelled to address. It's no coincidence that the level of criticism has increased radically in the last six years. Can anyone seriously pretend that this criticism is directed against
"America" rather than against the particular policies of this government and the image of the U.S. it has decided to project to the world?

I imagine that, as you point out, the tradition is different in Latin
America (and I remember it being so in Mexico in the 1970s) as well as
China, where the tradition of authoritarian governments had been strong for many decades. But the French people -- just like the Indians, to take another example -- are very outspoken in their criticism of their government. Then there are the Italians (especially under Berlusconi) and the British. Europeans generally don't feel that they will be branded as traitors if they oppose the current politics.

I see the hypersensitivity of the U.S. to external (and internal)
criticism as a symptom of its longstanding insecurity about national identity due to the lack of a serious notion of roots.