tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11704331.post115659757054863356..comments2023-11-05T03:12:10.925-06:00Comments on Renegade Eye: The Siege on Lebanon ContinuesFrank Partisanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03536211653082893030noreply@blogger.comBlogger76125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11704331.post-1160014841982839302006-10-04T21:20:00.000-05:002006-10-04T21:20:00.000-05:00I think it is a big problem in the US when people ...I think it is a big problem in the US when people and their allies think they have to deliver other countries from their dictator and even democratically elected government, even if they have to kill a part of their population to remove any unfriendly sympathizers. <BR/>We keep forgetting that our western governments keep funding terrorism (against Iran, for Hamas, ... etc).<BR/><BR/>Here in the US we are allowed to criticize other nations but we barely can criticize our own institutions, we think or at least the US government think that many people in the rest of the world want to be like us; which is wrong and dangerous. This is how civilizations collapse when we don't want to learn anything from other people. <BR/>Also French are more revolutionnary than Americans. I belong to an intercultural thinktank and here is what an American guy living in France has to say about that:<BR/><BR/><BR/>The French spend much more time, energy and bile criticizing the French government and its policies than they do the U.S. or any other country! That is part of the revolutionary heritage. They would be even more vocal if the level of external criticism were greater, but few non-French seem concerned about French policies, even when they should be. I, for one, wish Africans and other people of the world would make a bigger issue out of France's post-colonial policies, as egregious in Africa today as they have been at any time since post-WWII decolonisation. But of course no one thinks or seems to care much about<BR/>Africa (except when there's a genocide as in Rwanda or Darfur; and this endemic indifference should be seen as a contributing factor to a<BR/>political culture where genocide is always possible).<BR/><BR/>The major difference with the U.S. is that, in France, criticizing the<BR/>government, venerable French institutions (such as the Grandes Ecoles)or businesses is never confused with criticizing the country, the culture or the people. That's what's extraordinary about the U.S.: the facility with which criticism of government policy is labeled as hatred of the country and its people. This is, of course, equally frustrating for U.S. citizens within the U.S. who are opposed to the current politics, but they seem to find that reflex a natural part of the political landscape, even though they themselves are victims of it.<BR/><BR/>Today's asymmetry in levels of criticism is linked to the fact that the U.S. is by far more active in other people's affairs than any other country, and therefore the behavior of the U.S. government is an issue they feel increasingly compelled to address. It's no coincidence that the level of criticism has increased radically in the last six years. Can anyone seriously pretend that this criticism is directed against<BR/>"America" rather than against the particular policies of this government and the image of the U.S. it has decided to project to the world?<BR/><BR/>I imagine that, as you point out, the tradition is different in Latin<BR/>America (and I remember it being so in Mexico in the 1970s) as well as<BR/>China, where the tradition of authoritarian governments had been strong for many decades. But the French people -- just like the Indians, to take another example -- are very outspoken in their criticism of their government. Then there are the Italians (especially under Berlusconi) and the British. Europeans generally don't feel that they will be branded as traitors if they oppose the current politics.<BR/><BR/>I see the hypersensitivity of the U.S. to external (and internal)<BR/>criticism as a symptom of its longstanding insecurity about national identity due to the lack of a serious notion of roots.steven rixhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18154964357134050639noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11704331.post-1158172925388244632006-09-13T13:42:00.000-05:002006-09-13T13:42:00.000-05:00It never seems to occur to you that one cannot joi...<B>It never seems to occur to you that one cannot join up with a 'non-state actor' whose aims are state power, authority and subjugation, without furthering its aims of state power, authority and subjugation.</B><BR/>You can find the answer to that <A HREF="http://meastpolitics.wordpress.com/2006/09/09/operation-locked-kindergarten/#comment-3991" REL="nofollow">here</A> (comment #4).<BR/><BR/>All you have to do is try harder, instead of using such wording as "idiot" to drive your point home. Since you claim to have thorough knowledge of the "tenets" of anarchism (I did not know that anarchists were supposed to fall in line and adopt one strategy and belief) do enlighten us as to how you intend to get rid of authoritarianism. From what I understood, to achieve your ends, you want to impose your (intellectual or otherwise) authority on me. Very interesting.<BR/><BR/>Really, I anxiously await your suggestions as to what should be done. But of course, when it comes to that, you and your like go into "contemplation" mode, make a few fallacious arguments and cheap shots, and disappear into thin air. The great obstacle is not the lack of ready-made tools to fight the tyranny of authority (which, as I already pointed out, you insist on adopting), as there are many, but the defeatism of those who claim they are ideologically oriented and principled but who do not see their hypocrisy in wanting to silence the few who would actually LIKE to see some change. I suggest that those who do not have a solution would shut up instead of going around proselytizing (for it seems that defeatism is your religion). If you are waiting for a bloodless "coup" I say, go ahead and join the forces of statehood, that way you would be doing something with your life other than waiting indefinitely. It is defeatists like you who have brought things to this point, strengthened the state so much that it is no longer realistic to pursue a relatively less bloody transformation. But I dare say you are more worried on the plight of the Jews than anything else. So to prevent the POSSIBILITY of their eviction, you would love to give absolute power to the forces that carry out evictions (but not of Jews). I suppose if someone is to be evicted, you would rather see the Arabs be evicted, and not Jews. To argue that HezbAllah and Israel should be put on the same level is the peak of defeatism. When you prefer to stick to ideology rather than practical realities you declare your lack of interest in taking anarchism a step beyond mere words on paper. It is people like you who legitimize the state. Only when you realize that your words and (lack of) actions are resulting in the complete opposite of what you claim you want, will you appreciate the importance of treating these two entities (that does not mean HezbAllah should not be attacked) differently. Or maybe you won't. After all, your tribal mentality and wording is pretty indicative of the ideologies you espouse.Angry Anarchisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04358791049585242765noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11704331.post-1158172600974303972006-09-13T13:36:00.000-05:002006-09-13T13:36:00.000-05:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Angry Anarchisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04358791049585242765noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11704331.post-1158156456295994512006-09-13T09:07:00.000-05:002006-09-13T09:07:00.000-05:00I only have time tonight to point the obvious idio...I only have time tonight to point the obvious idiocies of our 'anarchist' friend. Although I am not an anarchist, I did once consider myself one and I respect anarchy as an independent revolutionary praxis that has had successes and failures. That said, many of its largest failures have come from idiotic assumptions like the following:<BR/><BR/>"First of all, there is a failure on their part to realize that the fight between Israel and HezbAllah is a state vs non-state actor scenario, and in any such scenario, anarchists cannot but take the side of the non-state actor, though not endorse its agenda/objectives, for the sole reason that anarchists are not merely against the authority of the state but against all forms of authority and subjugation. This shows how little understanding some self-identified leftists and anarchists have of the core of the ideology that they claim to espouse."<BR/><BR/>It never seems to occur to you that one cannot join up with a 'non-state actor' whose aims are state power, authority and subjugation, without furthering its aims of state power, authority and subjugation. First, let's clarify. There is no such thing as a non-state actor outside of an organization or action that seeks to end the state and capitalism. Any 'non-state actor' whether that is an NGO, an armed militia or a tribe, as long as its constituents are involved in commodity production and the political divisions that accompany that, or are put in charge of maintaining those relations, it is at once a guardian of these relations and a state-in-waiting which demonstrates state-like characteristics (expansion, imperialism). All non-state actors (militias etc.) in the middle east are fighting for a particular form of government based around commodity production alongside their larger narratives (except perhaps for the crass anti-capitalism of jaysh al-queda in Iraq). In other words, the state is a potential relation inside the mode of production: it is not something that dissapears because an organization is temporarily denied the influence of a state. Furthermore, Hezbollah HAS STATE POWER, it has since the 1990s when it started running campaigns for public office. <BR/><BR/>So none of your claims have any basis and you have no business chastising other anarchists or revolutionaries for not identifying with your ludicrous endorsements of Hezbollah. And though you will no doubt point out the eviction basis of the state of Israel, this doesn't stop you from making alliances with an organization whose entire armed presence is based on the unending fantasy of eviction of Jews from Israel (and maybe elsewhere).sphinxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17778790094623217541noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11704331.post-1158082272470598012006-09-12T12:31:00.000-05:002006-09-12T12:31:00.000-05:00Dear Sonia,The Palestinians were never given any c...Dear Sonia,<BR/><BR/>The Palestinians were never given any chance to have any of your "democracy". Nor lack of democracy allows people to shoot others as animals. So yes the blame goes first to the Zionists, second for the British, third equally to the USA and Soviet Union since both supported the Zionists in Palestine and later to be Israel, and fourth the world for keeping a shut eye on the matter.<BR/><BR/>Remember Democracy is a means and not an end in itself. Your logic is that you can carry a gun, and shoot me straight in the eye because I am accused of being undemocractic and you are.<BR/><BR/>Check Chapter 2 of my article: Lebanon, Israel, and Class Struggle, it does not dwell in details but should give you an incite on the matter:<BR/> http://marxistfromlebanon.blogspot.com/2006/08/lebanon-israel-and-class-s_115640733615919937.htmlMarxistFromLebanonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02742943269564177293noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11704331.post-1157997863166099982006-09-11T13:04:00.000-05:002006-09-11T13:04:00.000-05:00Marxist From Lebanon,Democracy has nothing to do w...Marxist From Lebanon,<BR/><BR/>Democracy has nothing to do with the USA. It's a system in which the people in a country elect their own leaders. Those leaders can be good or nasty, pro-American or anti-American, smart or stupid. It doesn't matter. What does matter is that in a democracy people cannot blame others for their country's problems. They elected their leaders, so if their leaders are bad or incompetent, it's THEIR FAULT. In a dictatorships, blame is inevitably shifted towards foreigners who allegedly always manipulate the situation. And when you blame others for your own problems, no progress is possible. <BR/><BR/>I won't bother answering your charges of racism. Shame on you!soniahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00938174968325568608noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11704331.post-1157927284654074552006-09-10T17:28:00.000-05:002006-09-10T17:28:00.000-05:00oh yes one more thing to add, regarding Allende to...oh yes one more thing to add, regarding Allende to Sonia dearest<BR/><BR/>I know Allende was not the first President to be elected in Latin America, but he was the first COMMUNIST president to be elected.MarxistFromLebanonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02742943269564177293noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11704331.post-1157881462141437232006-09-10T04:44:00.000-05:002006-09-10T04:44:00.000-05:00Dear Sonia, I apologize for taking me so long to r...Dear Sonia, I apologize for taking me so long to reply as I was busy in life for refugee relief aid for the homeless. I will start with your earlier post:<BR/><BR/>You say that we should support the United States in Iraq? This totally contradict your logic of democracy. The United States and UK invaded Iraq not to bring democracy to the Iraqis, rather to destroy weaponry of mass destruction, which the US and UK did not find in Iraq after invading Iraq and switched to "promoting democracy". In any case, democracy is never ever promoted by invasions, it is promoted by the emancipation of the working class to their rights. The United States and the whole Europe passed through the Union revolutions in order to reach its democractic form while it kept third world nations belated to enter the global system. <BR/><BR/>Again Sonia, you are using your racist supremism. In Palestine, it is no longer the question of democracy, it is the question of pushing starvation since plenty of Palestinians are facing the problem of getting bread. Israel would never allow a democractic Palestine, while you give it the right that it can oust and kill anyone because it is democractic. Racism is not democracy, and no democracy includes eliminating a whole nation. Again, you are hiding behind the Neo-Con ideology to support a full scale war on us. <BR/><BR/>Democracy means every life counts, not giving legitimacy to kill others. You have to admit, democractic nations behave sometimes as brutal as the non-democractic (USA in vietnam, Nicaragua, Guatinama, and so on, United Kingdom in South Africa...etc). Remember the closest allies to the United States are not democractic and supported by them: Qatar and Saudi Arabia and Kuwait. <BR/><BR/>Ironically, Lebanon and Syria knew democracy since early 1930s, and full scale democracy after 1944, and you can't just throw people who earned their popularity in the sea like Hezbollah because it does not fit your "criteria". Their allies are christians and so on, and they run into mutual agendas. I am not defending Hezbollah like you are defending your "racist democracy" but I am getting your facts clear since again you do not bother to do a full scale research and get your information objectively. <BR/><BR/>For example, did you know that it was the United States that created Taliban and Bin Laden in the 1980s and called the Jihad Democractic? Did you know that Saddam was labeled the symbol of democracy in the 1980s in the Arab World as he waged his war on Iran by US blessing? Technically the USA should be held accountable as well for the war between Iran and Iraq. <BR/><BR/>Personally, your "democracy" can never take place from above, my democracy is emancipation from below and taking power to above. Your democracy is bow down to the West and dump everyone in the sea who do not disagree, especially the Islamists, while mine is to emanicipate them into secular forces. Your hatred towards them (specially there are different categories) does not make you different than the Qaeda because both based on hatred. They hide it in virtue, you hide it in democracy. <BR/><BR/>As for our Turkish comrade:<BR/><BR/>greetings from Lebanon comrade and good luck with your struggle in Turkey. I lived for 3 monthes of my life over there back in 1989. <BR/><BR/>Sphinx, in a 100% Utopian world I agree, but I said some people viewed USSR as a checkpoint. I already said it was a Stalinist Russian Nationalist nation. Galloway is hailed as a hero over here not for his Socialist ideas but for reflecting exactly what is going on in Lebanon to the Media 100% and remember we were shut down by the media in case you didn't notice 85% covering Israel while barely 15% on Lebanon disregarding the attrocities committed over here by the IDF. <BR/><BR/>MFLMarxistFromLebanonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02742943269564177293noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11704331.post-1157823835550989482006-09-09T12:43:00.000-05:002006-09-09T12:43:00.000-05:00Hizbollah, which was the excuse Israel showed the ...<B>Hizbollah, which was the excuse Israel showed the world before the beginning of the conflict</B><BR/>Not quite so. I would challenge the reason the author mentions this. Israel has been the aggressor even when there was no HezbAllah, even when the assassination attempt in London was not the doing of PLO elements based in Lebanon (re: pretext for 1982 invasion), and so on. The problem is not HezbAllah's existence as some self-identified leftists claim it is, the problem is with Israel's constant manipulation of events to find pretexts for aggression. In fact, I have been coming under constant fire from some so-called anarchists who hail the ISRAELI ANARCHISTS' (sic) denouncement of their government, while insisting that LEBANESE ANARCHISTS (sic) (reference to me) fail to denounce HezbAllah. First of all, there is a failure on their part to realize that the fight between Israel and HezbAllah is a state vs non-state actor scenario, and in any such scenario, anarchists cannot but take the side of the non-state actor, though not endorse its agenda/objectives, for the sole reason that anarchists are not merely against the authority of the state but against all forms of authority and subjugation. This shows how little understanding some self-identified leftists and anarchists have of the core of the ideology that they claim to espouse.<BR/><BR/><B>killed Israeli civilians with rockets provided by Syria and Iran throughout the war.</B><BR/>Why are the Syrian/Iranian elements emphasized? Israel is killing civilians with rockets provided by the U.S. But the purpose in mentioning this is something more sinister. The purpose is to make a nationalist argument, that Syria and Iran are using Lebanon, or, functioning through a non-state actor in Lebanon (the author perhaps believes in the necessity of the state having the sole monopoly on violence) against Lebanese "interests".Angry Anarchisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04358791049585242765noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11704331.post-1157564348640494332006-09-06T12:39:00.000-05:002006-09-06T12:39:00.000-05:00Sphinx,Bravo! An extremely lucid and perfectly log...Sphinx,<BR/><BR/>Bravo! An extremely lucid and perfectly logical argument. But don't expect too many 'leftists' to follow it. Like in Germany in 1933, the so-called 'leftists' are already marching in goose-step with their Nazi comrades towards another Auschwitz and another Hiroshima.soniahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00938174968325568608noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11704331.post-1157551987826357002006-09-06T09:13:00.000-05:002006-09-06T09:13:00.000-05:00I can't believe I read all of this. But moreso, i...I can't believe I read all of this. But moreso, it's quite stunning to read people condemning Israeli brutality but then rushing to defend the Soviet Union as a 'check' against the post-war American-allied capitalist states. Are you even familiar with the Soviet role in Afghanistan for instance? And yes, that role includes the most secular and progressive Kabul that the world has ever seen but it also involved a brutal war in the countryside which involved turning tribes and groups that would cooperate with the Soviet occupation against those who would not. Now obviously I'm not backing the Mujahideen here, what I'm pointing out is what this counter-imperialism really meant for people on the ground. Face it, the USSR was neither socialist nor communist, and thus faced the same pressure to engage in imperialism as other capitalist countries. <BR/><BR/>The same logic could be applied to Hezbollah, an organization which rounds up gay people and delivers them to the police, and is obviously anti-semitic. Hezbollah is a 'check' to Israeli aggression in Syria (or something), even though most Israelis don't want anything to do with Lebanon anymore and in fact much of the reason the first war collapsed was because the Israeli working class refused the escalating logic that they were being thrown into. <BR/><BR/>But I don't want to waste much time on this pap. Anyone who defends George Galloway's 'glorification of Hezbollah' has truly NOT made a choice for class struggle but the very opposite, is engaged in the classic bourgeois shuffle for position, in which the group that can mobilize the greatest number with the lowest common denominator is the 'progressive step'. That's why RESPECT can't avoid pandering to holocaust deniers and homophobes, and how unfortunately, our Marxist here can't either. I'll also add how hilarious it is to read an 'anarchist' defending Hizbollah and having 'some' criticisms of the soviet union. Wow.<BR/><BR/>Lastly, a statement from some Turkish internationalists, who don't content themselves with the 'lesser evil' politics so obviously on display here.<BR/><BR/><B>On the Situation in Lebanon and Palestine</B><BR/><BR/>On July 12, right after the kidnapping of Israeli soldiers by the Hizbollah, Israeli president Ehud Olmert promised Lebanon a “very painful and far-reaching response”. During the early hours of July 13, the State of Israel started an invasion and pushed its working class into another nationalist and imperialist war. The Israeli state started this invasion for its own interests and without caring about the blood that would be shed. In fifteen days, about four hundred Lebanese civilians lost their lives. Not even the current ceasefire guarantees that the massacres won’t start again as the Israeli state showed that it would destroy anything threatening its own interests, not only with the last conflict but with the ongoing torture of the Palestinians.<BR/><BR/>Yet, it should not be forgotten that Israel is not the only side responsible for this conflict. Neither Hizbollah, which is attracting the attention of the world nowadays with the fight they gave to the Israelis with a violence that could match their own, nor the PLO and Hamas who have been carrying out a nationalist war in Palestine for years, can be considered ‘clean’. Hizbollah, which was the excuse Israel showed the world before the beginning of the conflict, killed Israeli civilians with rockets provided by Syria and Iran throughout the war. Hizbollah is an anti-Semitic and religious fundamentalist organisation. Most importantly, contrary to what some think, Hizbollah did not fight to protect the Lebanese; instead Hizbollah forced the Lebanese working class to join a nationalist front for its own interests, and it struggled only for the territories they controlled and the authority they had. The PLO which pushed the Palestinian workers from class struggle into the claws of their national bourgeoisie, and Hamas which is an organisation that is as reactionary, violent, anti-Semitic and religiously fundamentalist as Hizbollah, also act only for their own interests.<BR/><BR/>At this point, it is necessary to briefly describe imperialism. Contrary to what most people think, imperialism is not a policy strong nation states practice in order to take over weak nation states’ resources. Instead it is the policy of a nation state, or an organisation that functions as a nation state, that controls a certain territory, resources on that territory and authority over the population in that territory. To phrase it simply, imperialism is the natural policy any nation state, or organisation that functions as a nation state, practices. As we have seen in the last conflict between Israel and Hizbollah, in some situations nation states or organisations functioning as nation states have clashing interests, and this clash finally reaches the point of an inter-imperialist war.<BR/><BR/>As the situation is like this, what leftists in Turkey and the world are saying becomes even more ridiculous and inconsistent. Both in Turkey and the world, a great majority of leftists have given full support to the PLO and Hamas. In the latest conflict they become one voice and said “We are all Hizbollah”. By following the logic of saying ‘the enemy of my enemy is my friend’, they fully embraced this violent organisation which pushed its working class into a disastrous nationalist war. The support leftists gave to nationalism shows us why leftists don’t have much to say that is different from what parties like MHP (Nationalist Movement Party – the fascist Grey Wolves) not only on Hizbollah, PLO and Hamas, but on many other subjects. Especially in Turkey, leftists don’t have any idea what they are talking about.<BR/><BR/>Both the war between Hizbollah and Israel and the war in Palestine are inter-imperialist wars and all sides use nationalism to draw workers in their territories onto their sides. The more workers get sucked up into nationalism, the more they will lose the ability to act as a class. This is why neither Israel, nor Hizbollah, nor PLO nor Hamas should be supported under any circumstances. What should be supported during this conflict is the workers’ struggle to survive, not nationalist organisations or states that are getting them killed. Yet more importantly, what should be done in Turkey is to work for class consciousness and class struggle that will develop here. Imperialism and capitalism bind all countries together; this is why national independence is impossible. Only workers’ struggle for their own needs can provide an answer.<BR/><BR/>For Internationalism and Workers Struggle!<BR/><BR/>Enternasyonalist Komünist Sol, 1/9/06.sphinxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17778790094623217541noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11704331.post-1157350742044504912006-09-04T01:19:00.000-05:002006-09-04T01:19:00.000-05:00Hey, your comments link isn't working on your Rive...Hey, your comments link isn't working on your Rivera/Rockefellar post. I've always wanted to go to Mexico to study Rivera's and Kahlo's paintings and murals. And of course their story is one of the best examples of the truth being stranger than most anything one would invent. - dd""https://www.blogger.com/profile/11465195034863910282noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11704331.post-1157283675956238212006-09-03T06:41:00.000-05:002006-09-03T06:41:00.000-05:00What's the ratio of Christians to Muslims on the s...<B>What's the ratio of Christians to Muslims on the southern border of your Country?</B><BR/>Who cares? Seriously. What difference does it make??<BR/><BR/><B>if you don't fuck with Israel, chances are they won't fuck with you.</B><BR/>1982 tells a different story. As does Israel's continuous instigations of the Palestinians, and when the Palestinians react, the Israelis begin to whine about terrorism. Tell me, who exactly was holding the fire when Israel was continuously shelling Gaza? Was it Hamas by any chance?<BR/><BR/><B>as long as Arab countries are run by unelected totalitarian dictators like Saddam, Assad or Khadafi...</B><BR/>Exactly. But, you forgot Abdullah of Jordan and Mubarak of Egypt. Or maybe those are part of the "dictators we love"?Angry Anarchisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04358791049585242765noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11704331.post-1157250237245245492006-09-02T21:23:00.000-05:002006-09-02T21:23:00.000-05:00Boogski,Israel was there, is there, and will certa...Boogski,<BR/><BR/><I>Israel was there, is there, and will certainly be there</I>.... as long as Arab countries are run by unelected totalitarian dictators like Saddam, Assad or Khadafi... but the day the Arabs will start to freely ELECT their leaders... watch out!!soniahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00938174968325568608noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11704331.post-1157225562940520642006-09-02T14:32:00.000-05:002006-09-02T14:32:00.000-05:00Tell me, MFL. What's the ratio of Christians to Mu...Tell me, MFL. What's the ratio of Christians to Muslims on the southern border of your Country? Is it 1/3 Christian as the picture you're attempting to paint would indicate? I doubt it. <BR/><BR/>Why don't your Muslim buddies just leave Israel alone? Seems sensible and logical to me. It's obvious they're not going ANYWHERE. So why keep picking at them? I don't have to "be there" to deduce that, if you don't fuck with Israel, chances are they won't fuck with you.<BR/><BR/>Let that sink in for a bit. Really.<BR/><BR/>And Sonia, Israel <I>was</I> there, <I>is</I> there, and will certainly <I>be</I> there for the rest of your life. That's just the way that it is.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11704331.post-1157200611630012072006-09-02T07:36:00.000-05:002006-09-02T07:36:00.000-05:00Marxist From Lebanon,Salvador Allende, because he ...Marxist From Lebanon,<BR/><BR/><I>Salvador Allende, because he was the first democractic elected president</I> <BR/><BR/>That's not true. Chile had a stable, pro-American democracy before Allende, who was actually THE LAST democratically elected president (until 1990, of course)...<BR/><BR/>And I know that the US doesn't always support democracy - more reason for you to support democracy, and more reason for all of us to support the US in those RARE times when they actually support democracy (Iraq, for example)...<BR/><BR/><I>you can't expect democracy over the remaining survivors of zionist massacres to be democractic.</I><BR/><BR/>Yes I can! It's precisely because they suffer and their lives are in danger, that they shouldn't allow themselves to be enslaved by their own leaders as well... When Nazi bombs were destroying London in 1940, the British people didn't told Churchill, 'please impose a totalitarian dictatorship on us, we will obey you without thinking'. Instead, they maintained a free press, criticized Churchill when he deserved it, and voted him out the second the war was over. The Arabs fighting Israel should do the same. Then, they would have a chance of winning, by putting pressure on their leaders to be smart and effective. Right now, it's the Arab leaders who maintain pressure on their own people to be blindly obedient and passive. Such people can never a win a war. Slaves make bad soldiers, that's why Arabs lost in 1948, 1956, 1967, etc. - slaves of Arab kings and later Arab dictators were fighting FREE PEOPLE. <BR/><BR/><I>isn't the kicking of the Palestinians out of their homes in 1948 the very breach of democracy</I><BR/><BR/>Apples and oranges. It would have been a breach of democracy if an Israeli DICTATOR had expelled the Palestinians. But the Palestinians were expelled by a democratically-elected Israeli government that had the support of the majority of the Israelis. That made this action legitimate. <BR/><BR/>If the Arabs states become democratic, and then they win the war against Israel, the Arab people likewise might have an opportunity to DEMOCRATICALLY expel the Israelis from Israel. And that action too will be legitimate. Tit for tat.soniahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00938174968325568608noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11704331.post-1157190754396614262006-09-02T04:52:00.000-05:002006-09-02T04:52:00.000-05:00Dearest SoniaI apologize for sounding rude earlier...Dearest Sonia<BR/><BR/>I apologize for sounding rude earlier, but put yourself in my shoes :)<BR/><BR/>For starters, Nicaragua suffered from the biggest massacre when the socialists made it to power (Chomsky: Pirates old and new)... excluding the supported coup. For example, the first to threaten US administration was Salvador Allende, because he was the first democractic elected president which resulted in a coup d'etat by Pinochet publicly supported by the USA... hence Democracy in two cases been violated. <BR/><BR/>Second, Democracy in its true essence is a must, I agree, but we both know that this is impossible in these days, specially in the ex-colonial areas that lost its cutting edge by entering very late to the capitalist market and hence for ever be divided... after all it was the imperial forces that forged their system: an elite to rule ruthlessly in order to secure exporting free of cost and expense raw materials, and become in turn markets as well. <BR/><BR/>Fourth, you mentioned earlier that you do not expect the Palestinians to be peaceful specially a whole nation was kicked out with US-UK-USSR blessing. Again, you can't expect democracy over the remaining survivors of zionist massacres to be democractic. Think of it from their eyes, you lose your husband, your children are killed, your house is torn down, you move to an old tin house, and again it is torn down. IAF planes hovering above your heads, you have no electricity, barely clean water due to IDF brutality, how peaceful your mind can be? If you want read a post on my blog what my mother (a Christian Palestinian) had to go through due to zionist racism. Besides, isn't the kicking of the Palestinians out of their homes in 1948 the very breach of democracy, specially till now they were never compensated nor the Israeli government held accountable for all those massacres? At least please stress on this dimension a bit. <BR/><BR/>Now Boogsi<BR/><BR/>You preach democracy, but you refute to accept a religious sect. It is the same when Hitler decided to refute the Jews from his Third empire, which is exactly the same. <BR/><BR/>Second, I do not your pity as till now no Muslim as offended me due to my sect belonging. Like I said, the media got you entrapped and engulfed in hatred. Just today, all the political blocks (extreme Christians and Muslims) in the parlaiment will all be holding hands against Israel. Even Samir Jaajaa (head of the christian Lebanese Forces) will be part of it against Israel and in solidarity to Lebanon, that should some light on what is going on. <BR/><BR/>Three years ago, some blocks proposed Islam studies in the public schools, it got refuted for: either integrating Christian and Muslim teachings as both religions preaching the same God (as the Pope of Rome and the Greek Orthodox Arch-Bishop in Antioch themselves) acknowledged this fact centuries ago. Heck, even your "beloved" war criminal Bush said so exactly 24 hours after 9/11. <BR/><BR/>By the way, the President has always been elected a Christian, that should give you an idea also. Lebanon is made of around 35% Christians afterall. If you think they enforce on us values, you are wrong. We lived a civil war, mind you not only christians butchering muslims or vice versa, but christians butchering each other in name of Christ, and same applied to the other side. Again, just as Muslims accept your rituals, you should do the same... hence at least in Lebanon, they are proving themselves they are much superior to you in terms of social interactions. <BR/><BR/>TO continue, it amazes me how people focus on the two soldiers. Two soldiers are not an excuse to commit a war crime of over 1100 Lebanese civilian, specially I would say it for I do not know how much over here since some people barely like to listen, what about all the violations Israel did post-2000. What about the Lebanese prisoners, the kidnapped fishermen, the sudden bombings of the South. From 2000 - 2006, at least Hezbollah bombed the last occupied part of Lebanon: Shebaa, Israel responed with the bombings of the South (and mind you their war is not with Muslims as your racist eyes think, but with Lebanese despite any religion). <BR/><BR/>At least now I am a bit happy that me and the moderate ones are getting somewhere, but I pity the isolationists and extremists. They live in Plato's cave. <BR/><BR/>Best Regards<BR/>MFL<BR/><BR/>PS: www.samidoun.org is being active online again so check the updates friends and help the Lebanese refugess, 200,000 lebanese are homeless. Now I go with Green Line to help in the Oil Spill clean upMarxistFromLebanonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02742943269564177293noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11704331.post-1157166957294642682006-09-01T22:15:00.000-05:002006-09-01T22:15:00.000-05:00What I don't understand, MFL, is why is ANYONE att...What I don't understand, MFL, is why is ANYONE attacking Israel from Lebanese soil? The Israelis withdrew from your Country years ago. You guys should run those Qur'an thumping Hizb'allah fuckers right out of your Country! If your government isn't addressing your needs, then take it up with your elected officials. Why do you suck up to those low-life Islamist bastards?<BR/><BR/>It's clear from your words that you don't even believe Israel has a right to exist, MFL. The minute someone starts bitching about what happened in 1948, they're busted.<BR/><BR/>So you're "considered" a Christian, eh? God help you if you are "actually" a Christian. It might upset your Muslim overlords. They might request that you "revert" to Islam at gunpoint. Barbaric scumbags.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11704331.post-1157121563255679742006-09-01T09:39:00.000-05:002006-09-01T09:39:00.000-05:00Renegade Eye,Thank you for the Sept. 1 Further Lef...Renegade Eye,<BR/><BR/>Thank you for the Sept. 1 Further Left Forum comment. It has been converted to a normal post. Your inclusion of, ... " A colorful team for sure.", made attaching our team photo seem appropriate. Your continued participation on Further Left Forum is welcomed. You might also be interested in visiting, reading, and taking what you wish from its <A HREF="http://furtherleft.net" REL="nofollow">Library</A>. The <A HREF="http://furtherleft.net/chat.htm" REL="nofollow">Chat Room</A> is a good place to come to know one another. Both are also linked from the <A HREF="http://forum.furtherleft.net" REL="nofollow">Forum</A>.<BR/><BR/>furtherleftfurtherlefthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06336313161772608280noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11704331.post-1157111236895288002006-09-01T06:47:00.000-05:002006-09-01T06:47:00.000-05:00Troutsky,I saw in your bio you were "turned" by re...Troutsky,<BR/><BR/><I>I saw in your bio you were "turned" by reading one book.I must read it.</I> <BR/><BR/>Unfortunately, it was never translated into English...<BR/><BR/>Marxist From Lebanon,<BR/><BR/><I>I do not see "backwardness" the way you do because again you are being biased with a superior "Western" view</I><BR/><BR/>I actually agree with you here, but there is nothing 'Western' about democracy. Iran is more democratic than Hezbollah, and they are both equally anti-Western. It's ironic that in Iraq, the Shiites are democratic while Sunnis are totalitarian, but in Lebanon it's just the opposite.<BR/><BR/>What is 'backward', however, is to hate one particular country so much that you reject democracy just to spite it, as if by adopting democracy, you were doing the Yanks or the Israelis a favor.<BR/><BR/>Democracy is not necessarily pro-American. Democracy is the humility to accept a verdict of YOUR OWN PEOPLE that you yourself might disagree with. Democracy is when the Nicaraguan people told the Sandinistas 'we don't want to fight the Americans anymore, we want peace'. But democracy is also when the Bolivian people told the World 'we want to grow coca even if Washington will be angry about it'. Democracy is also when the Palestinian people told their Al Fatah leaders 'we don't want your corruption. And democracy is also when the Iraqi people told the Baathists 'we prefer to be ruled by pro-American collaborators than by national socialists like you'. <BR/><BR/>Death to those who want to stop democracy, whether they are in Washington, in Fallujah or in a cave in Afghanistan...<BR/><BR/>And support for those who spread democracy, whether they are in Washington, in Baghdad or in La Paz...soniahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00938174968325568608noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11704331.post-1157090808808418662006-09-01T01:06:00.000-05:002006-09-01T01:06:00.000-05:00lol, for starter, the fire power they got and thei...lol, for starter, the fire power they got and their christian armed allies, they could have ages ago. <BR/><BR/>as for critique, mate plenty of Lebanese FOrces or independent figures attacked Hezbollah clearly and in the middle of the war for not consulting the government. Heck, you should have watched Junblatt's speech last week, or Hezbollah's MP Hussein Hajj Hassan being accused as Muppet for Syria and should go to live in Damascus. <BR/><BR/>Just google and you will find what you want. Actually some articles appeared in annahar saying: "What the Shiites want" or "Will Presents keep coming to Lebanon from Israel and Syria?" <BR/><BR/>Praying five times a day is religius and not Hezbollah, unless you are a religious racist person. I am considered a Christian on my ID and my baptist name is Alexis. I have no problem with any religion. I totally opposed their practice, but I do not see "backwardness" the way you do because again you are being biased with a superior "Western" view. If anything it is the "West" that starved Africa due to centuries of Colonialism (may I remind you that S. Africa till 1994 had its first elections?) Just as people memorize the Old or New Testament, it is the same logic btw... a holy scripture is a holy scripture, and not all memorize as you think, actually only those who specialize in theology memorize their holy script. Besides Allah means God, the same worshipped by three religions, unless you want to divide that, then you got a racist problem, then go stand next to Hitler. <BR/><BR/>The 3rd world had been just a source of raw material and hence the West hindered its societal evolution. <BR/><BR/>BTW, you mean to tell me that Israel that possess the technology to seperate between Civilian and military killed over 1100 citizens is justified? Already Israel negotiated back in 2003 exchange prisoner exchange when 3 IDF were kidnapped on Lebanese soil, they just needed an excuse to bomb Lebanon as Rice was talking about the "New Middle East" <BR/><BR/>Except for CB attempting in an academic manner but chose the wrong article to judge, most of you are speaking based on what you hear on CNN or ABC... my pity :)<BR/><BR/>MFL<BR/><BR/>PS: did you boogsie bother to check the links I posted?MarxistFromLebanonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02742943269564177293noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11704331.post-1157064976148938962006-08-31T17:56:00.000-05:002006-08-31T17:56:00.000-05:00MarxistFromLebanon said:Then why the heck we have ...MarxistFromLebanon said:<BR/><BR/><I>Then why the heck we have night clubs? Why annahar or Daily Star in Lebanon attack freely Hezbolluah if we didn't have freedom of speech? Again, it amuses me how people grab an idea by its tail and judge, or to be exact copy paste what they hear like parrots.<BR/><BR/>So tell me Boogsi, is it logical to have a huge portion of the Palestinian ministry kidnapped by Zionists without being held accountable?</I><BR/><BR/>Hizb'allah doesn't control nightlife and the party scene in Lebanon...YET. But you can bet your ass that if they did, those Night Clubs you're bragging about would be padlocked in a skinny minute. They are Islamists! How can you be a Marxist and not realise that their world view is simply not compatible with Marxism? Are you ready to be FORCED to "pray to Allah" 5 times a day, MFL? How the fuck is that backwards crap going the feed the starving children in Africa? How is wasting time memorising the Qur'an going to help cure AIDS?<BR/><BR/>The Press in Lebanon has "attacked" Hizb'allah? Yeah..Right. I challenge you to show me ONE scathing attack on Hizb'allah from the Daily Star. Mild criticism doesn't count.<BR/><BR/>And I ask you, is it "logical" to attack a country who possesses vastly superior military technology? Every single one of those buildings the Israelis destroyed would still be standing tall if it wasn't for Hisb'allah. Every single person killed by Israel would be alive today if it wasn't for Hizb'allah.<BR/><BR/>"party of God" my ass.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11704331.post-1157043110996920852006-08-31T11:51:00.000-05:002006-08-31T11:51:00.000-05:00troutsky,I'm gonna put my skirt back on and pick u...troutsky,<BR/><BR/>I'm gonna put my skirt back on and pick up the pom poms again. Except for that Darwin comment (he has been TOTALLY debunked) you guys can't handle Sonia!Craig Bardohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02247430738711822531noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11704331.post-1157040154788079542006-08-31T11:02:00.000-05:002006-08-31T11:02:00.000-05:00Sonia, if "peace leads to democracy" ,would German...Sonia, if "peace leads to democracy" ,would Germany, France and England be "democracies" that emerged from WW1 as exceptions to that rule? We may be doing a chicken and egg thing here but since there has never existed a peace or democracy (maybe the Paris Commune or Spain in 36 ever so briefly)it is theoretical speculation at best. I would like to create both (perhaps simultaneously!) but when a Pope, King, Czar,capitalists, Party or Corporate State have overwhelming power, the democracy is a sham (bourgeoise democracy).<BR/><BR/>If the People are the State (socialism), itis difficult for them to oppress themselves.I saw in your bio yu were "turned" by reading one book.I must read it.troutskyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16020298501632120830noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11704331.post-1157039617961811832006-08-31T10:53:00.000-05:002006-08-31T10:53:00.000-05:00hellopeaceful and democractic? Didn't you notice t...hello<BR/><BR/>peaceful and democractic? Didn't you notice that all of them have been subjugated to Western Colonialism? <BR/><BR/>As for Palestine? How do you expect people who lived for 50 years in camps to be that organized? Democractic is a lately a Neo-Con "Bush" citation a la Hollywood style. If foreign powers do not intervene or did not intervene in the first place then they would, so tell me again, when will you be objective for once and study the background of the people rather carry the banner of Western Superiority? <BR/><BR/>Funny, try be a democractic with an F16 bombing your house, hopefully one day you go to Palestine and live there and see for yourself about the feasibility of your theories<BR/><BR/>Revolutionary Yours<BR/>Marxist From Lebanon<BR/><BR/>PS: aren't we talking of the same democracy that is starving 2 billion people, and forcing 1 billion child not to have one of the 5 basic needs, and 1.2 billion living in what the WHO considers below livable standards?! Fascinating!! :DMarxistFromLebanonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02742943269564177293noreply@blogger.com