Monday, August 24, 2009

The Stalin-Hitler Pact

Today is the seventieth anniversary of the infamous The Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact, known as the Hitler-Stalin Pact. This article is a good analysis from a Marxist viewpoint, about the several wars together called World War II,.

Written by Ben Peck
Monday, 24 August 2009



In the early hours of August 24 seventy years ago Germany and Soviet Russia signed a "non-aggression pact", which divided the states of Northern and Eastern Europe into German and Soviet "spheres of influence", effectively slicing Poland into two halves. Ben Peck looks back at what happened and explains why such an incredible event could take place – and the price that was paid

Be sure to read the rest of the article HERE

RENEGADE EYE

175 comments:

The Pagan Temple said...

It happened because Stalin was an incompetent fool who was so greedy for the territory he couldn't see the long-term consequences. It happened because Hitler was rushing headlong into what he was convinced was a glorious destiny. It happened because the British leadership was weak and ineffectual, to say nothing of cowardly. It happened because America was not involved, and should have stayed that way for at least two years longer than what it took them to become involved. It would have been a bigger mess for us to clean up, but we could have cleaned it up faster, cheaper, and with less deaths on our side.

With the clowns we have leading the world today, it would happen all over again. Does anybody really believe that anyone, including America, would do a damn thing if the Russians and the Chinese were to get together and start carving up territory amongst themselves? Hell, we can't even solve the problem of Kashmir between India and Pakistan that's been going on for what, sixty years now?

Obamarama would issue a "stern rebuke", and that's about it. He'd be so scared it would take a supreme effort to keep his eyes on the teleprompter while he was doing it, otherwise he would throw so many uhhs and ahhs in there people would forget what he was talking about to begin with.

Hell, there isn't anybody now thats got the balls to do anything concrete about Gaza, or about Sudan, or any number of other places. Just lob a few missiles here and there and talk some meaningless talk about sanctions-which if they are applied doesn't do anything to hurt the people in power of the target country, just the schmucks that are already suffering under them-and talk a lot of shit about human rights and democracy.

Kind of like the school yard weakling who gives up his lunch money everyday and tries to comfort himself by whining about how "fighting and violence never solve anything" when somebody tells him he ought to grow a pair and fight the bullies.

Never gonna happen.

white rabbit said...

This reminded me of ye olde song 'Oh my Stalin party line' to the tune of 'my darling Clementine'

Leon Trotsky was a Nazi/
Oh I knew it dor a fact/
First I read it, then I said it/
'Til the Hitler/Soviet pact'

Then 'Oh my Stalin...' - you get the rest of it.

The Sentinel said...

The pact was only made possible as the end result of two extreme leftist parties who had come closer together through extensive trading and mutual military sharing of resources: The USSR got technology and tactics, the Germans got private space for testing and manoeuvres.

It was only through this immense trading and back scratching that the pragmatic Nazi-Soviet pact was possible.

Ironically, during the war, the German economic department worked out that they would have gained much more through trading with the USSR then invading it.

The pact was also only possible because these two hideous entities were only really separated by relatively minor ideological and tactical differences, many of which were incorporated within the respective regimes at some stage in any case - for instance the USSR had to resort to nationalism to whip up popular support for war and the Nazis had to resort to political commissars in the army; the main practical difference in the regimes seems to that the USSR turned its murderous rage mainly inwards whereas the Nazis turned their murderous rage mainly outward.

But contrary to contemporary myth, the Nazis were not a party of the far right, but a party of the far left and introduced a social welfare the likes of which had never been seen not just in Germany but in some its occupied territories too.

The Sentinel said...

For instance, in Holland, via a “health care fund” the Dutch State pays the cost of health care of the below average income segment of our people. This fund has been hailed as “a pinnacle of civilization”. However, it was established by the Nazis on November 1, 1941 [during the occupation of the Netherlands].

In 2006, the PvdA (Socialists) blocked the loosening of Dutch employment protection. Some labor unions even termed this employment protection 'holy' However, this measure was also introduced by the Nazis.

The dependent child allowance, one of the shrines of the Christian Democrats, was introduced by the Nazis in 1941.

In another example, during the occupation of Czechoslovakia the Nazis introduced
social security into the country for the first time; increased pensions and introduced unemployment benefit. In fact it was because these measures were so popular that their overseer, Heydrich was assassinated.

One other social policy the Nazis instituted that is being banded around the US at the moment was that the cost of health care was paid for by the government.

But there were many other socialist policies introduced by the Nazis too:

- The Nazis brought the automobile within reach of the people.

- They doubled the number of holidays for workers.

- They introduced agricultural subsidies for farmers to protect them against the risks of weather and a fickle world market.

- Prices of food were set by the government.

- The Nazis introduced the progressive income tax (still a “sacred” item for the leftist parties).

- The Nazis were not just leftists, they were green as well: they were the first to make care for the environment a government responsibility.

- Landlords were required to charge their tenants affordable rents.

- The legal position of tenants was strengthened.

- Child benefits were introduced.

- Pensions were increased.

- The only tax increase that hurt “the common man” was a 50% increase on the duty on tobacco and alcohol.

- And in the war a “special social benefit” was introduced: benefits for the cost of rent, insurance, coal, potatoes and other essential goods.


The USSR never even came close to these tenets of socialism.

The Nazi-Soviet pact was a pact between two far-leftist parties.

Renegade Eye said...

White Rabbit: LOL! That's great.

Pagan: Bush in the second term and Obama's policies are similar. The American foreign policy now, is about stability at all costs, because of the quagmire of Afghanistan and Iraq. America is overextended, and even Bush realized that.

Churchill wanted American troops used in places like India.

Sentinel: Where did you get the idea that having social welfare programs makes a government leftist? Much of social welfare was introduced by the Bismark. Most governments are mixed economies. Even the Iranian mullahs have social welfare programs. At the same time the mullahs are privatizing everything they can get their hands on.

The supporters of Hitler were on the right. In the US it was people like Gerald L.K. Smith, Father Coughlin, Chas. Lindbergh etc, all on the right.

Trotsky opposed Hitler 11 years before Churchill. He was called a warmonger for that.

Why did Stalin kill every single member of the Bolshevik Central Committee, who was in power in 1917?

Stalin made a deal with Hitler, because the allies wouldn't.

Stalin beat Hitler, because even in its deformed way, had a nationalized economy. Property relations in Nazi Germany were military Keynesianism. Hitler didn't believe the economy was an important issue. I don't have to remind you of his opposition to "Jewish Bolsheviks." When Trotsky was mentioned to Hitler by Goering, he literally vomitted. That is in Deutscher's bio of Trotsky.

Class collaboration is a hallmark of fascism.

CB said...

Ren,

The Sentinel is correct. These were two totalitarian left regimes. The Soviets owned the means of production, the Nazis allowed private ownership but like Obama, they controlled it. Nazism was just a short cut to what the communists wanted and because of it, they were capable of superior production.

An ultra right wing government would be an anarcho capitalist regime. It would look more like America in the mid 1920s, except for the protectionism and regulation. Actually, more like America from the end of the Civil War period until the mid 1890s. It would be a regime far less interested in war and more likely to be lawless. It would be more fun, more dangerous and more prosperous.

Anonymous said...

great, another loon trying to paint the Nazi's as far-left DOH

The Pagan Temple said...

Why not? Loons on the left have spent the last fifty years trying to paint the Nazis as some kind of deformed kind of conservatives? Personally, I think the Nazis were revved up centrists, though veering slightly left of center. Veering might not be quite the word for it. Rampaging left of center might be more accurate. It's a big mistake to view centrists as moderate in all cases.

But that's exactly what the Nazis were-centrists, at least relatively so. Sort of like the modern American Democratic Party.

The Sentinel said...

Renagade Eye,

"Where did you get the idea that having social welfare programs makes a government leftist?"

What you really mean is where did I get the idea that governments instuitating socialist polices makes a government socialist?

Especially in occupied lands where no such socialism had ever existed before and in the middle of a world war?


"Much of social welfare was introduced by the Bismark."

I clearly demonstrated that the Nazis instituted these socialist polices, even in occupied lands.

And if you follow the links, you will see that even today, the official Dutch social security website acknowledges this. If you have evidence to the contrary...


"The supporters of Hitler were on the right"

Maybe so, doesn't mean the polices of the NSDAP were not far left.


"Trotsky opposed Hitler 11 years before Churchill. He was called a warmonger for that."

Trotsky was also the mass murderer of his own people - a driving force behind the Red Terror - and didn't deserve any credibility.

And it was actually the Allies that declared war on Germany for invading Poland - following the traditional balance of power policy, and not for any political reason whatsoever - but not the USSR when it too had invaded Poland at exactly the same time.


"Why did Stalin kill every single member of the Bolshevik Central Committee, who was in power in 1917?"

Why did Lenin and Trotsky mass murder their own people and as many of their opponents as they could after gaining power? And how was it any different from what Stalin did?


"Stalin made a deal with Hitler, because the allies wouldn't."

There was plenty of deals made by the Allies with Hitler.

Just a couple to roll off the top my head...Munich...Anglo-German Naval Agreement...


"Stalin beat Hitler, because even in its deformed way, had a nationalized economy."

Stalin didn't beat Hitler; it was a massive combined effort. Yes, the USSR paid the lions share in human lives, but that was in part down to the fact the USSR had nothing but contempt for the lives of its citizens.

But that was the real contribution of the USSR in the war; its economy was shot to pieces and it was only due to unprecedented foreign aid, mainly from the US and the UK that the USSR was even able to carry on at all. Without foreign aid, the USSr would have collapsed and the Nazis would have rolled straight through it.

But it is a common leftist canard that the USSR had a superior economy and production system and that led to victory. As usual, the truth is far from it.

The Sentinel said...

As Pravda explains:


“Soviet propaganda tried to diminish the importance of the American help. Back in those years, it was said that the Soviet Union had produced 30,000 tanks and 40,000 planes since the middle of 1943. Well, as a matter of fact, this was true. However, one has to take into consideration the fact that lend and lease deliveries were made to the USSR during the most difficult period of the war - during the second half of 1942. In addition, the USSR would not have been capable of producing its arms without the lend-lease agreement: The USA shipped 2.3 million tons of steel to the USSR during the WWII years. That volume of steel was enough for the production of 70,000 T-34 tanks. Aluminum was received in the volume of 229,000 tons, which helped the Soviet aviation and tank industries to run for two years. One has to mention food deliveries as well: 3.8 million tons of tinned pork, sausages, butter, chocolate, egg powder and so on. The lend-lease agreement provided orderlies with 423,000 telephones and tens of thousands of wireless stations. Deliveries also included oil distillation equipment, field bakeries, tents, parachutes, and so on and so forth. The Soviet Union also received 15 million pairs of army boots.”

http://english.pravda.ru/main/18/90/363/9941_roosevelt.html


And another report:

“For example, the USSR was highly dependent on trains, yet the desperate need to produce weapons meant that fewer than 20 new locomotives were produced in the USSR during the entire war. In this context, the supply of 1,981 US locomotives can be better understood. Likewise, the Soviet air force was almost completely dependent on US supplies of very high octane aviation fuel. Although most Red Army tank units were equipped with Soviet-built tanks, their logistical support was provided by hundreds of thousands of high-quality US-made trucks. Indeed by 1944 nearly half the truck strength of the Red Army was US-built. Trucks such as the Dodge 3/4 ton and Studebaker 2.5 ton, were easily the best trucks available in their class on either side on the Eastern Front. US supplies of waterproof telephone cable, aluminum, and canned rations were also critical.”

http://www.experiencefestival.com/a/lend-lease%20-%20significance/id/5226269


And another:

“The author makes a clear case that the program was a major factor in the survival of the Soviet Union and the victory over Nazism.{…}

In two particular areas the help was indispensable. With major agricultural regions of the Soviet Union under enemy occupation, and the unsatisfactory system of distribution and transportation, to say nothing of mismanagement, the Soviet state had more than a nodding acquaintance with famine. Without Western aid, during the war the Soviet population would have been in danger of sharing the fate of those trapped in Leningrad and the earlier victims of collectivization. Even with the American aid, many Russians died from lack of food. Equally important was Lend-Lease’s contribution to transportation. It would have been impossible for the Red Army to move the masses of troops and supplies on the primitive roads to the front lines without American Studebaker trucks, which also served as the launching pads for the dreaded Soviet rocket artillery.

Besides weaponry and food, Lend-Lease provided the Soviet Union with other resources, ranging from clothing to metals. With the start of the Cold War, Lend-Lease became a forgotten chapter in Soviet history and was only revived after glasnost. Now, thanks to Russian researchers and this excellent study, the West will have access to the real story. Lend-Lease provided vital help for the Soviet Union when the country was in desperate straits and made a significant contribution to the final victory.”

http://www.historynet.com/russias-life-saver-lend-lease-aid-to-the-ussr-in-world-war-ii-book-review.htm

The Sentinel said...

And this what the USSR recieved in just in miltary supplies:

“To sum up the results of the lend-lease program as a whole, the Soviet Union received, over the war years, 21,795 planes, 12,056 tanks, 4,158 armored personnel carriers, 7,570 tractor trucks, 8,000 antiaircraft and 5,000 antitank guns, 132,000 machine-guns, 472 million artillery shells, 9,351 transceivers customized to Soviet-made fighter planes, 2.8 million tons of petroleum products, 102 ocean-going dry cargo vessels, 29 tankers, 23 sea tugboats and icebreakers, 433 combat ships and gunboats, as well as mobile bridges, railroad equipment, aircraft radar equipment, and many other items.”

http://www.oilru.com/or/23/390/


The reality is that the economy of the USSR was a shambles and so was its production capabilities and without massive, unprecedented aid, it would have succumbed to the Germans.


"Hitler didn't believe the economy was an important issue"

Thats right. He largely left the details to the experts. And ironically the German economy went within 10 years from abject bankruptcy and poverty to one that was able to take on the world for 6 years.


"I don't have to remind you of his opposition to "Jewish Bolsheviks."

The NSDAP were Nationalists and Socialists, not Marxist internationalists. That is what that opposition was based upon. Not based upon the opposition of socialism, as their subsequent polices clearly show.


CB,

Pretty much spot on.


Anoymous,

Wow, if I had reckoned on such a carefully formed counter argument...



Pagan Temple,

It serves the PC agenda to have the Nazis painted as far right, when much of their policies were clearly to the left.

They were also green and passed laws against vivisection, environmental practice and even discouraged smoking. Not the actions of the far-right.

Gert said...

The idea that the Nazis were somehow 'leftists' has gained some traction recently among the American Rightwing (but then these are the same people that consider Obama a 'Socialist' or 'Communist' or... 'Nazi' - talk about being confused). Jonah Goldberg contributed to it/Kashshsiiing-ed! on it with his cowpad 'Liberal Fascism', a typical right-on-left smear bookiewook, written by an imbecile (you should see my small collection of 'Goldbergisms', they're up there with a larger number of 'Coulterisms').

People like Farmer and Beakerkin probably think Librul Fascism is recommended bed time reading.

The 'similarities' between the Nazism and the Left are skin deep and don't withstand any serious scrutiny: in the run-up to WW II, there was minority support for the Nazis in just about every European country, but also in the US. All these supporters were firmly on the Right, from the British Union of Fascists to the myriad of fascist precursors of modern separatist parties like Vlaams Belang to Lindbergh et al. And in the thirties, quite virulent anti-Semitism existed also in the US, partly coming from German immigrants supporting the fascist homeland. And regards all residual support for Nazism, wherever you find it in the world, that 'Neonazism' comes solely and purely from the Far Right. I challenge anyone who believes these guys are on the left to say it to one of them to their face without risking their own faces being caved in rather brutally....

The Nazis supported also Franco, the only European country to do so. Ask an average José in Spain today what side Franco was on back then (an what side die-hard Spanish Francists today are on...)

As regards Sentinel, here's someone who's even more confused: Gets really upset when you call him Far Right, yet came up with this little gem in my comment section:

"I personally couldn't care less what drives them [British Muslims] to do it, do it they do and leave they [British Muslims] must. They are not compatible with western life and values."

Name me one person on the Left who would take that position?

Pagan:

"Why not? Loons on the left have spent the last fifty years trying to paint the Nazis as some kind of deformed kind of conservatives?"

So some childish tit-for-tat would somehow prove the Nazis were on the left? In the American political 'debate', where negative campaigning and smear tactics are all too commonplace, the epithet 'Nazi' is being used by both sides. See this rather sad case of Jewish supporter of 'Obamacare' getting the Hitler salute from a particularly spiteful Obama opponent (video clip).

Anyone who considers Nazism to be on the left cannot remotely be taken seriously. If it wasn't so risible, I'd call it 'revisionism' but it isn't really worth being called that...

Gert said...

Ren:

As far as relatively short articles on complex subjects go, the Ben Peck essay is a good one.

The Pagan Temple said...

Like I said, I don't say the Nazis were Far Left, I say they were Centrist (though firmly Left-of-Center). Pretty much like your basic common garden variety American member of the Democratic Party. This is an acknowledgment by myself that the Democrat Party would probably be left-of-center, as opposed to Far Leftist, if you consider such as Mao and Stalin to be Far Left.

The tit-for-tat allusion was simply my way of saying it is no more valid to paint the Nazis as being Far Right (which is actually a way of calling conservatives Nazis/Fascists) than it is true to call Nazis Far Left.

I have seen no indication, by the way, that Charles Lindburgh was what one might call "conservative". The only thing I have heard in this regard is that he supported the Nazi regime. That in itself does not make him "conservative" or Far Right. It has first to be demonstrated the Nazis were Far Right, and so far I have seen nothing to indicate such a thing.

Is it because they were proponents of a powerful military. Newsflash, back in those days, the biggest proponents of war in the US was-you guessed it, the Democratic Party.

I haven't seen any indication that any people who supported the Nazis here in the US were conservative, or of the right. Just that they weren't socialists or communists, or far left.

Prescott Bush is usually the guy most leftists like to point to as an example of a "conservative" or someone on the "Right" who supported the Nazis.

The problem with that is, the Bush family, including Prescott, and including both President Bushes, were not conservatives, except maybe when it came wanting to give their country club friends tax breaks, if you want to call that conservative.

The last President Bush was a social conservative in some regards, and pushed tax breaks, but he was hardly a conservative. Amnesty for illegal immigrants, Medicaire prescription coverage, an aggressive military foreign policy. Those things are not conservative. Neither was Bush, and neither was Prescott Bush.

So the fact that Prescott Bush supported the Nazis, if he did, speaks volumes as to what I've been saying all along.

If Hitler had lived here in the US, he would be a Democrat. Or maybe a RINO Republican. But he could not under any stretch of the imagination be considered a bona fide "conservative".

Gert said...

Much of the debate on whether the 'Nazis were Leftists' stems of course from a large false dichotomy: the belief that totalitarianism is either the sole preserve of the Left or the Right. As anyone who can read can assert: it isn't; totalitarianism has found its way to both the Left and the Right movements and often manifests itself when those movements find themselves under threat. Repressive countermeasures to stop any opposition then lead to a totalitarian state apparatus being created.

And since as no one on the Left of the Right finds it particularly palatable to be associated with a movement that has shown totalitarian potential, most people will then resort to the canard that totalitarianism is a hallmark only of the 'other side'. It's Manichaeism Supreme. But incorrect.

I also think Nazism defies catagorisation into easy 'Left v. Right' boxes. As ideologies go, Nazism is a hotch potch totalitarian movement, ideologically borrowing from wildly diverse sides and sources, with a good dollop of complete quatch (see their pre-occupation with the Occult and an alleged Master Race) and the deployment of scapegoatism in an extreme form (anti-Semitism for political reasons). 'Mein Kampf' is a very bad (and not just evil) and quite inconsistent book.

Pagan:

"If Hitler had lived here in the US, he would be a Democrat. Or maybe a RINO Republican. But he could not under any stretch of the imagination be considered a bona fide "conservative"."

Poppycock. Hitler was far too radical to be either a bona fide Democrat or Conservative (or RINO). That's what makes the comparisons between Obama (and earlier Bush) and Hitler so completely risible. You're depicting the Nazis as somehow mainstream, that's baloney...

The Sentinel said...

Gert,

As per usual I post plenty of evidence to go with my comment and you just produce a few well worn platitudes.

As I have clearly shown, the Nazi's instituted socialist polices that went further then the USSR and many so-called socialist countries since; they even carried them out in occupied territories and in the middle of a world war. Clearly socialism was of a very high priority to them.

You glib assessment of the Nazi foreign policy as regards Spain is irrelevant as anyone who has studied this period of history will know that Hitler practised Realpolitik in foreign policy matters and, despite despising international Marxism, thought that Franco would be the best ally. That this was due to Realpolitik (as was the Nazi-Soviet pact) can easily be demonstrated by the fact it was widely believed that Franco was part Jewish; and that Spain itself become a safe haven for Jews throughout the war with Spain's borders left virtually open during the war for that purpose; and that Spain did nothing to help the Germans in the war. The two regimes had irreconcilable differences.


"As regards Sentinel, here's someone who's even more confused: Gets really upset when you call him Far Right, yet came up with this little gem in my comment section"

You really seem to have difficulty staying away from the argumentum ad honimen route, most likely because you have very little else. What was said in that comment in a different thread on a different blog bares no relevance to what is being said in these comments, on this thread, on this blog.

And you fail to mention your own comments full of lies, funnily enough.

And the fact that your utterences have lead to many accusations that you are anti-Semitic.


""I personally couldn't care less what drives them [British Muslims] to do it, do it they do and leave they [British Muslims] must. They are not compatible with western life and values."

Like this one for instance; the insertion of British Muslims is your own and is entirely erroneous. I was referring to Muslims in Denmark where, as previously proven, they commit 68% of all rapes (as well as half of all serious crime) despite making up less then 5% of the total population, and also Norway where a similar amount commit two thirds of all rapes and the similar position in Sweden because their contempt for liberated Scandinavian woman.

You cannot even get your argumentum ad hominem and lies straight.

And I don't think its far right to say that immigrants who commit serious crimes should be deported. I think its common sense.


"Name me one person on the Left who would take that position?"

And tell me what that has to do with my comments and its contentions?


"Anyone who considers Nazism to be on the left cannot remotely be taken seriously."

How laughable. Why? Because you tip up with nothing more then your say so and not a single scrap of evidence?!!


"If it wasn't so risible, I'd call it 'revisionism' but it isn't really worth being called that..."

Go on, one word judge, give it a label. You must have plenty left in your PC bag.

The Pagan Temple said...

I don't say the Nazis were "mainstream". But on the other hand, it's every bit as "risable" to say that the Democrats are "mainstream". I see a lot more in common between liberal Democrats and Nazis than I do Nazis and conservatives. A hell of a lot more.

The only surface difference I can see is the Democrats in the modern era have lost their stomach for war, since the Robert Kennedy-Eugene MacArthy-George McGovern wing of the party came into pre-eminence in the late sixties and seventies.

Otherwise, its hard to discern much of a difference between "mainstream" liberal Democrats and your average Nazi. Just because Democrats preach tolerance and inclusion doesn't prove much, especially when they have a historical record of slavery, Jim Crow and welfare plantation policies which one can easily point to. To say nothing of their attitudes towards any black or other minority who has the temerity to dispute them on an issue of any real importance.

You are dealing then, according to them, with an "Uncle Tom" or in the case of American Indians "Uncle Tom-Toms", etc. Or in some cases, they are just "stupid" because they "vote against their own best interests" (which of course a fucking Democrat is far better qualified to define for them than are the people doing the actual voting).

No, they haven't rounded anybody up yet and herded them onto Stalags with gas chambers and ovens. Give them time. Then again, as long as they can cause millions of deaths and widespread human suffering and misery while keeping their hands clean, who needs Auschwitz?

In the meantime, since the "peace" faction of the Democratic Party came to control its platform, all the world is an Auschwitz. Just some places more than others, if you catch my drift.

After all, why really put the hammer down and put a stop to shit when you can just as easily keep things contained, let the killing continue within established parameters, and at the same time pretending you are promoting "peace". What a fucking joke.

Gert said...

Sentinel:

"As per usual I post plenty of evidence to go with my comment and you just produce a few well worn platitudes."

No. As per usual, you start from a preconceived notion, then go quote-mining to try and support what you say. Since as few have time and inclination to read all your drivel, you can then claim 'victory'. You rip things entirely out of context.

"You really seem to have difficulty staying away from the argumentum ad honimen route, [...]"

For the last time, Far Right is a measure of where you personally stand on the political scale. It's my opinion but it is NOT ad hominem.

"Like this one for instance; the insertion of British Muslims is your own and is entirely erroneous."

Assuming you were indeed talking about Danish Muslims instead of British Muslims, that doesn't make your statement any less racist (or less typical of the Far Right for that matter).

"And tell me what that has to do with my comments and its contentions?"

In this context the FACT that you're Far Right is important because it explains why you want to distance yourself from the Nazis. There's no real need for that: I don't consider you (or most of the Far Right) a Nazi.

"Go on, one word judge, give it a label. You must have plenty left in your PC bag."

Your obsession with being opposed to being 'labeled' is pathetic. Apart from the fact that you do quite a bit of labeling yourself, labels are simply words. Like all words they have a more or less precise or diffuse meaning, depending on context. There's nothing wrong with using them.

Gert said...

Pagan:

"I see a lot more in common between liberal Democrats and Nazis than I do Nazis and conservatives. A hell of a lot more."

Now you've gone seriously past pastiche...

"No, they haven't rounded anybody up yet and herded them onto Stalags with gas chambers and ovens. Give them time. Then again, as long as they can cause millions of deaths and widespread human suffering and misery while keeping their hands clean, who needs Auschwitz?"

What to say? If you wrote this on my blog, I'd probably delete it: some nonsense is just not even blogworthy...

"After all, why really put the hammer down and put a stop to shit when you can just as easily keep things contained, let the killing continue within established parameters, and at the same time pretending you are promoting "peace". What a fucking joke."

As opposed to the sort of Pax Americana we've grown to love and foster after the Iraq war? It's sad to see a portion of the American public being incapable of drawing any lessons from the most recent 'foreign policy' catastrophy.

Humpty Dumpty sat on a wall...

CB said...

Gert,

The idea that Nazis were a leftist construct is as old as the regime. Read F. A. Hayek's The Road to Serfdom. He described how the Nazis were socialist turned fascist. He did so contemporaneous with their rise to power. Hitler hated socialists, not because he didn't share their aims but because they were ineffective. Leave the owners in place, threaten and intimidate them into seeing things your way and get them to produce.

Germans had the best equipment in the war. The Luftwaffe had the strongest aircraft in theater, produced by Messershmitt AG. The Mark V Panther was the best tank in the business at the time. Pistols, rifles, even uniforms, the Germans fought on more than one front, if they hadn't, things would have turned out very differently.

If I were going to live in a leftist, statist country, fascism beats socialism every single time. I like where we've been, not where we're going but I prefer my vision of an anarcho capitalist state. This is where I agree with the internationalist leanings of the left, anarcho capitalism would work better if there were universal respect and protection for property rights, no other laws other than some local ordinances would be necessary.

I won't experience anything nearly that good until I get to heaven but it's a thought.

The Pagan Temple said...

I think I should point out that I was never a big fan of the Iraq War. I think that for the first four years or so of it, it was fought incompetently. Since those days, we've had to play catch-up, where it should by all rights have been over with by now if we had followed a sensible strategy. Now, it might well be too late to undo the damage of those early years.

Pointing to the Iraq War is not a refutation of my point, it's actually a confirmation of it. When you fight a war, first of all it should be a necessary war, and second and most importantly, you should go all out and fight the damn thing to win it. Iraq and Afghanistan both are text book cases of how not to fight wars.

Renegade Eye said...

I'll be online tonight.

One thing that shows how bankrupt the American right finds itself is; Jonah Goldberg days Hitler was pro-envirimentalist therefore rightist. What does that make the right? Pro pollution? In addition he distorts Nazi murders, and calls them euthenasia.

Guess what else Jonah says? The French Revolution was a fascist revolution. Anything that is not monarchist he opposes.

Keynesianism was invented for Germany in mind.

Gert: The right calls Obama a socialist.

The idea that Nazis were a leftist construct is as old as the regime. Read F. A. Hayek's The Road to Serfdom. He described how the Nazis were socialist turned fascist. He did so contemporaneous with their rise to power. Hitler hated socialists, not because he didn't share their aims but because they were ineffective. Leave the owners in place, threaten and intimidate them into seeing things your way and get them to produce.

The Nazis never socialist. You read Mein Kampf? Hitler had idealist ideas about small businesses thriving, and talked abstractly about breaking up monopolies. Very similar to populism. He hated socialism and socialists.

One faction (Strasser) of Nazis used left rhetoric. Hitler wiped them out, because he wanted to make clear to capitalists, he was with them.

I'll say more tonight. I didn't even read everything yet.

The Sentinel said...

Gert,

"No. As per usual, you start from a preconceived notion"

Known in normal circles as an opinion.


"go quote-mining to try and support what you say"

Known in normal circles as presenting evidence to support the opinion.


"Since as few have time and inclination to read all your drivel, you can then claim 'victory'."

Straight back to your favourite argumentum ad honimen.

If you don't know where to look to find evidence to support your position pretty quickly, then it is usually because that evidence is not really there.

But all in all, this is pure argumentum ad honimen, and ironic as no one seems to take the time to read any of your fanatical drivel on your blog, despite these little fishing trips. In fact you were deserted wholesale after dedicating your blog to your irrational and fanatical myopic subject and have been accused many times of being an anti-semite.


"For the last time, Far Right is a measure of where you personally stand on the political scale. It's my opinion but it is NOT ad hominem."

You brought in a comment made on a different thread, on a different blog which bares no relevance to what is being said in these comments, on this thread, on this blog.

It had no relevance at all except that you thought it could somehow discredit me. And neither did your opinion. The debate is not about "is the sentinel right or left."

And as for your opinion, I couldnt care less. I think its pure crap, just as you think that the many accusations against you of anti-semitism - a far right feature - or false.



"Assuming you were indeed talking about Danish Muslims instead of British Muslims"

It was quite clear I was - but in any case I'm glad that you have demonstrated what an underhanded and foolish liar you, inserting your own text into irrelevant quotes.


"that doesn't make your statement any less racist (or less typical of the Far Right for that matter)"

As you have already been told, Islam is a religion, not a race.

But typically you have no comment on the proof put forward of the problem; just the fact that it has been raised and a perfectly normal solution has been offered.


"In this context the FACT that you're Far Right is important because it explains why you want to distance yourself from the Nazis. There's no real need for that: I don't consider you (or most of the Far Right) a Nazi."

What a load of contradictory crap. I don't, and never have considered myself to be "a Nazi" - so why in Gods name would I try to distance myself from them?

Bloody hell man, where are you?


"Your obsession with being opposed to being 'labeled' is pathetic"

Quite normal really, for people other then yourself who think they have such greatness that they can judge and sum up an entire human being and their life with two syllables.


"Apart from the fact that you do quite a bit of labeling yourself"

Go on then...


Gert, you are as thoroughly disingenuous, underhanded and dishonest as any I have come across on this meduim and as always have brought an intersesting debate crashing to down personal remarks and argumentum ad honimen.

I've told you before, everytime you try these stunts you fail becasue the truth is not on your side.

The Sentinel said...

Renegade Eye,


"The Nazis never socialist."

Then why did they institute massive socialist programmes and policies then? Even in countries that were occupied by them, during a world war and had never had socialist policies before?

And you also believed that Stalin defeated Nazi germany single handed, which I have shown to be utterly false.



"You read Mein Kampf?"

Written 10 years before he came to power.


"He hated socialism and socialists."

He hated Marxists and internationlists. He was a socialist. A National Socialist.

The Nazi government contributions to social security between 1938 and 1943 (in millions of Reichsmarks):


1938 640
1939 749 +16%
1940 940 +26%
1941 1395 +48%
1942 963 -31%
1943 1119 +16%


'And the great industrialists? How did they do under Hitler? Companies had to pay 98% tax under Hitler. In some cases even 104% of profits had to be paid. And the weapons industry? The Nazis seized all “war-related” profits. Or, in the words of Hitler himself: “As long as there are soldiers fighting at the front, nobody will be allowed to make profits from the war.”

Investors had to hand in all dividends above 6% to the State. In 1941 this was followed by a special profit tax. In the same year homeowners suddenly had to pay property tax in advance over the years ahead. An increase of residential rents was not allowed.'

Renegade Eye said...

CB: You've been around too many anarchists. What the heck is statist? There will always be a state, as long as there are classes.

If I were going to live in a leftist, statist country, fascism beats socialism every single time. Gobbly gook. Statist? leftist? That's not analysis.

An ultra right wing government would be an anarcho capitalist regime. It would look more like America in the mid 1920s, except for the protectionism and regulation. Actually, more like America from the end of the Civil War period until the mid 1890s. It would be a regime far less interested in war and more likely to be lawless. It would be more fun, more dangerous and more prosperous.

That's Somalia. It is a state going through primitive accumulation. Little to do with left or right.

How can you work in finance, and not know the difference between Keynesianism and socialism?

Pagan: You woefully misundestand fascism. As much as I dislike Democrats, I don't associate them with fascism. Fascism only comes after the working class was defeated in a revolutionary situation as Germany in 1918, and Italy in the early 20s. Not even a military dictatorship is fascist.

The US never won a major war in my lifetime, and I'm way older than you. They always go in to win. That doesn't mean they are able. War is politics by other means.

Gert: I agree with you.

Jonah Goldberg called the French Revolution fascist. The bottom line is that he is a monarchist.

He doesn't differentiate voluntary euthenasia, and Nazi murder.

Sentinel: Your blog is for invited only?

Trotsky called Stalin before the Nazis came on the scene a national socialist. Stalin was a national socialist. Hitler had vague ideas about economics. He romanticised small business, and was against monopolies. He doesn't answer about small businesses growing to become monopolies. Hitler also believed the Jewish usury nonsense. In Mein Kampf he mentions being fond of welfare programs. In Germany because of the depression, it had social welfare programs that were advanced.

Franco was a smart politician. He was willing to side with whoever won. He was a fascist.

Fascism is about the rule of capital. It always occurs after the defeat of the revolutionary proletariat.

Germany: Workers defeated 1918
Italy: 1922
Spain Barcelona

It is the total annihilation of the revolutionary working class.

Having social welfare programs is not part of the discussion.

Hitler destroyed the Strasser faction of Nazis, for anti-capitalist rhetoric. Hitler didn't want any doubt he was pro capitalist.

The Sentinel said...

Renegade Eye,

“Your blog is for invited only?”

I’m doing something work related with it, but I rarely post anymore in any case. I can send you an invite in the interim if you wish.


“Trotsky called Stalin before the Nazis came on the scene a national socialist.”

Trotsky, in common with all politicians had lots of things to say, and on that basis it his actions and not his words that he needs to be judged on.

He was involved in mass murdering his own people – workers in the main – and every opponent he could get his hands on during the Red Terror.

He has no creditability in morality or judgments.


“Hitler had vague ideas about economics”

Hitler was one man, not the NSDAP.

And it is undeniable that the German economy was taken form bankruptcy within a very short time to one where unemployment was eradicated, massive socialist welfare programs – the likes of which had never been seen and were unimaginable only a few years earlier – were instituted including health care; the automobile was put within the reach of every worker as were virtually unheard of foreign holidays; a huge network of innovate roads were built and amongst many other civil programs, the German military was built up to be the greatest war machine the world has ever seen, and ultimately the German economy took on the world for 6 years.

Hitler may not have had much technical interest in the economy but clearly many in the NSDAP did and to an incrediblely effective degree.


“Hitler also believed the Jewish usury nonsense”

It is true that the Hitler linked all usury with Jews, but usury itself is not nonsense.

In fact, as we find ourselves in this recession we can see it in action; the independent banks that control the money flow in the US and the UK are charging interest on money that doesn’t exist – merely pieces of paper they have printed or figures they have made appear on a screen


“The way the central bank [of England] does this is by buying up assets - usually financial assets such as government and corporate bonds - using money it has simply created out of thin air.

Of course, these days the Bank doesn't have to literally print money to do QE. It's all done electronically.

However, economists would still argue however that QE is the same principle as printing money as it is a deliberate expansion of the central bank's balance sheet and the monetary base.

The Bank has initially said it will buy UK government bonds, or gilts, maturing between five and 25 years, though it could increase the maturities in the future.”

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7924506.stm


So from money that doesn’t exist, and the Bank doesn’t have, it buys up bonds guaranteed by the taxpayer that do exist AND charges interest that the taxpayer is guaranteed to pay back too, to the tune of £33,000 for every man, woman and child in the UK and $36,000 so far in the US.

And that is without personal debt.

The Sentinel said...

“In Germany because of the depression, it had social welfare programs that were advanced.”

They had socialist programs. Clearly. They were socialist programs. Not of the far-right.

And it was not just in Germany, the NSDAP spread their socialist polices to the occupied countries and as a result, for instance, the core of the Dutch social welfare system was instituted by the Nazis, as well as their most cherished employment protection laws.

These are not the actions of the right, let alone the far right.



“Franco was a smart politician. He was willing to side with whoever won. He was a fascist.”

That is not why Hitler sided with him though.


“Hitler destroyed the Strasser faction of Nazis, for anti-capitalist rhetoric”

Hitler mainly killed Strasser because he was a rival for leadership and didn’t even try and disguise it.

That was the main reason.

Secondary to that was the fact that he needed stability in Germany in order for his regime to survive at that stage, and the big corporations had the ear of Hindenburg.

And then thirdly, the NSDAP needed the corporation on side for its economic and rearmament program.

But like with so many in authority, Hitler said one thing and did another.


“Hitler didn't want any doubt he was pro capitalist.”

Hitler at that stage didn’t want any doubt that he appeared to be pro capitalist just he didn’t want any doubt at that stage that he appeared to be happy with a coalition government.

But like I said, politicians need to be judged on deeds, not words.

And Hitler and the NSDAP were anything but pro capitalist in deed.

And as the research from Hitler’s Beneficiaries by Gotz Aly proves:


“And the great industrialists? How did they do under Hitler? Companies had to pay 98% tax under Hitler. In some cases even 104% of profits had to be paid. And the weapons industry? The Nazis seized all “war-related” profits. Or, in the words of Hitler himself: “As long as there are soldiers fighting at the front, nobody will be allowed to make profits from the war.”

Investors had to hand in all dividends above 6% to the State. In 1941 this was followed by a special profit tax. In that year homeowners suddenly had to pay property tax in advance over the years ahead. An increase of residential rents was not allowed.

How socialist was Hitler? Let us look at the government contributions to social security between 1938 and 1943 (in millions of Reichsmarks)

1938 640
1939 749 +16%
1940 940 +26%
1941 1395 +48%
1942 963 -31%
1943 1119 +16%

This is how socialist Hitler was. He commanded a solidarity and social justice policy the current Social Democrats can only dream about.

The question is: how could Hitler pay for this all? Well, the 31% decline in spending on social security in 1942 reveals it. In that year, the expropriation of the rights of Jews to social security was processed in the accounts.”


http://www.amazon.com/Hitlers-Beneficiaries-Plunder-Racial-Welfare/dp/0805079262


“Having social welfare programs is not part of the discussion.”

Of course it is. Especially when you are talking about socialist programs that form the central plank of government policy not just in their own country, but in occupied ones to in the middle of a world war.

These programs were simply not the actions of the right, let alone the far right.


And out of interest, do you still believe that Stalin and his “nationalized” economy defeated the Germans?

Gert said...

Sentinel:

"In fact you were deserted wholesale after dedicating your blog to your irrational and fanatical myopic subject and have been accused many times of being an anti-semite."

My visitor numbers climb all the time, albeit slowly. Most of those who 'deserted' me were always opposed to whatever I said about Israel to begin with. Mad Zionist 'deserting' me for instance is rather a relief. I've been called an anti-Semite and worse besides that well before I shifted emphasis on Israel. It comes with the territory.

"You brought in a comment made on a different thread, on a different blog which bares no relevance to what is being said in these comments, on this thread, on this blog."

What you wrote was in the public domain and shows you take up positions only found on the Far Right (British or other). Considering you're claiming the Nazis were Socialists, that's relevant...

"As you have already been told, Islam is a religion, not a race."

Sigh and yawn... The pettiest argument a racist can use is to say 'they're not a race'. They're not but the wholesale discrimination you advocate against THE WHOLE GROUP makes it racism of the worst kind. Sent's homework for tonight: look up a modern dictionary definition of the term 'racism'.

"I've told you before, everytime you try these stunts you fail becasue the truth is not on your side."

Talking to you has often been like talking to a member of the Flat Earth Society but never more so than in this 'debate'. It's no surprise that you're now holding positions that are common with some American arch-Conservatives, a group that for the moment seems hell-bent on descending into 'bizarre cult' status (Thank the Lawd!). Perhaps you should immigrate?

The Sentinel said...

Tin Tin,

Again you bring nothing to an interesting debate but reams of argumentum ad honimen and rendering to personal remarks.

Here is a revolutionary idea for you: If you disagree with a contention, then try presenting evidence as to why, rather then just using two syllable labels and personal distractions.


"My visitor numbers climb all the time, albeit slowly"

But your comments don't, and that bothers you. You actively try to promote your blog - indeed it is entitled "developing your web presence" - but you are unable to draw (m)any comments because your regular commentators abandoned you after you launched into your very odd fanatical and ostensibly rootless obsession and new visitors quite obviously do not want to comment on your very odd fanatical obsession.


"I've been called an anti-Semite and worse..."

Why do you think that is?


"What you wrote was in the public domain and shows you take up positions only found on the Far Right..."

Again, that is just your very narrow, polemical prejudice talking, not reality.

I think you'd find most people would agree that immigrants who commit rape and serious crime should be deported.


"Considering you're claiming the Nazis were Socialists, that's relevant"

Considering I'm providing lots of evidence for it in a debate its utterly irrelevant. I am not "far right" and never have been outside of your fevered imagination.

The only thing relevant in this debate is the evidence presented, not you way-off prejudiced opinions and attempts at labelling.


"Sigh and yawn... The pettiest argument a racist can use is to say 'they're not a race'"

Actually it is the only argument anyone can use in reality as Islam is not a race. It is a religion. And if you cant grasp that fact then you need to go back to school.

And as for "racist" - you are the one who is frequently flagged as an anti-semite.


"They're not but the wholesale discrimination you advocate against THE WHOLE GROUP makes it racism of the worst kind."

I advocate deportation for immigrants that commit serious crimes and logical prevention; it is obvious when we see Muslims who make up less then 5% of the population of Denmark committing 68% of all rapes (and half of all serious crime) and also in Norway where a similar amount commit two thirds of all rapes a similar position in Sweden that there is a serious problem.

And in this case it is not hard to figure out what that is. Can you imagine transporting huge numbers of sexually liberated Scandinavian people to live amongst the Saudis? Can you imagine what would happen? By the same token can you imagine transporting huge numbers of people that have a violently intolerant, immensely judgmental and sexually repressed religion and culture to the most sexually liberated places on earth and what will - and clearly has - happened

Here it is from the horses mouth from a Mufti in Denmark's capital:


"An Islamic mufti in Copenhagen, Shahid Mehdi, has sparked political outcry from the left-wing Unity List and right-wing Danish People's Party, after stating in a televised interview that women who do not wear headscarves are "asking for rape."...As a mufti, a jurist who interprets Islamic law, Shahi Mehdi is in a special position of authority as a Muslim scholar. Mehdi is currently affiliated with the Islamic Cultural Center in Copenhagen"

http://www.cphpost.dk/news/politics/90/17093.html

The Sentinel said...

And he is far from alone:
"Sheikh Yusuf al-Qaradawi, the Muslim cleric currently on a controversial visit to Britain, believes that female rape victims should be punished if dressed "immodestly" when assaulted.

The 78-year-old Egyptian-born scholar, allowed into the country despite his open support of Palestinian suicide bombers and his extreme views on homosexuality, says that women can be guilty of provoking a sexual attack if their dress or behaviour arouses a man.

Dr al-Qaradawi's views on rape appear on a website called IslamOnline, which purports to give a modern interpretation of Islam. He is the website's chief scholar and leader of a group of Islamic academics who provide answers to questions posed by Muslims on moral issues.

One question asked: "Are raped women punished in Islam?" A panel, headed by Mr al-Qaradawi, replied: "To be absolved from guilt, the raped woman must have shown some sort of good conduct . . . Islam addresses women to maintain their modesty, as not to open the door for evil.

"The Koran calls upon Muslim women in general to preserve their dignity and modesty, just to save themselves from any harassment.

"So for a rape victim to be absolved from guilt, she must not be the one that opens . . . her dignity for deflowering."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1466715/For-her-to-be-absolved-from-guilt-a-raped-woman-must-have-shown-good-conduct.html



Even the Mufti of Australia agrees:

"[The Mufti of Australia]... Muslim leader Sheikh Taj al-Din al-Hilali has savaged Australia in an interview on Egyptian television.

The interview, in Arabic, was about the furore he created last year with a Ramadan sermon in which he compared scantily clad women with "uncovered meat", suggesting that they were responsible for rape, called women Satan's messengers to deceive men, and said thieves often stole because they were pressured by greedy women."

http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2007/01/11/1168105116655.html



"Sent's homework for tonight: look up a modern dictionary definition of the term 'racism'."

Tin Tin's homework for tonight: look up a modern dictionary definition of the term 'religion'.



"Talking to you has often been like talking to a member of the Flat Earth Society but never more so than in this 'debate'."

You haven't contributed anything whatsoever to this debate, as you usually don't; just lots of personal remarks and argumentum ad honimen.

I rip you apart everytime you pull these little stunts, as I have again.

As I have told you many times Gertrude, the truth is not on your side.

If you disagree with the evidence I have presented here on the topic in hand, then use some of your own to counter it



"Perhaps you should immigrate?"

The fact that a Belgian nutcase with the worst case of PC tourettes I have seen in a long time really thinks he has any right at all to tell me I should leave my own country - my ancestral homeland of generations - just reveals not only what a bent and twisted individual you are but how far this PC insanity has been allowed to take root and the rot it has caused.



Are you going to actually make an on topic comment at all, or just continue this blatant argumentum ad honimen?

Renegade Eye said...

Tomorrow I'm posting something else. Please sum up.

I'll comment tonight.

We don't need to recap the personal nonsense.

Gert said...

Sent:

"You actively try to promote your blog - indeed it is entitled "developing your web presence" - but you are unable to draw (m)any comments because your regular commentators abandoned you after you launched into your very odd fanatical and ostensibly rootless obsession and new visitors quite obviously do not want to comment on your very odd fanatical obsession."

The name of my blog stems from the fact that in origin it was dedicated to Internet Marketing and Advertising. Nothing else.

Supporting the Palestinian cause, raising a little money for Palestinian humanitarian causes and exposing the hypocrisy of Zionism counts as a 'fanatical obsession'? Oh, well...

"I think you'd find most people would agree that immigrants who commit rape and serious crime should be deported."

I think you'd find most people would agree that immigrants who commit rape and serious crime should be charged, tried and convicted in an open court with a fair trial, like anyone else. But of course we're all being arm-twisted by the ’Marxist PC brigade' (LOL)...

In the past I've heard you spout ridiculous nonsense about the Holocaust, Nazi A-bombs, racial theory and more such pleasantries. Now 'Socialist Nazis'. What next: shape shifting reptillian flesh eating Nazi socialist zombies? Don't ever change, will you? Too entertaining...

Calling all tinfoil hats to join Jeff Rense. Repeat: Jeff Rense NEEDS you. David Icke's already a member, so don't be shy.

It's ad hoMinem, BTW, not ad 'honimem'... Bye, honey...

Gert said...

Ren:

'Anarcho-Capitalism' has already been tried: it's called 1st Industrial Revolution Laissez Faire Capitalism. And what a fine mess it was too! Bad for just about everything: from workers to the environment and eventually even for that kind of capitalism which basically ended up cannibalising itself.

CB just wants to turn back time but seems to think that would be progress...

The Sentinel said...

Renegade Eye,

"We don't need to recap the personal nonsense."

More then agree, it is pure nonsense initiated by the usual suspect in lieu of an on topic contribution to the debate.

But unfortunately, because of this outrageous liar, the record should be set straight.



Tin Tin,

"The name of my blog stems from the fact that in origin it was dedicated to Internet Marketing and Advertising. Nothing else."

Really? Well now it is dedicated purely to your bizarre, fanatical obsession why not change the name? Face it, you crave attention for your obsession but no one really wants to know.

Its just too weird for people:

A grown gentile man from Belgium, who now lives in the UK, so obsessed with Israel that he has long dedicated his blog purely to criticising them daily, with so much vitriol and myopia that he has lost friends over it to the point that he is more or less alone with it on the blog, expect for his hate mail; Why do Jews and their interactions - interactions that have no possible bearing on your life or experience - arouse that level of fanatical interest for you?

Just too weird for ordinary people.

But this comment from your last post but one gives the game away:

"Now this is the sort of post that could get me into trouble on multiple fronts but just having come back from a (blog) debate [cough!] on American health care reform..."

You clearly thought that people (many of them / "multiple fronts") were going to follow you over to your webrag, because that is what you were after. (And it seems pretty clear that is what you are after with pretty much all of your antics.)

But like I told, I really wouldn't worry about it if I were you. And it echoed when I said it.


"I think you'd find most people would agree that immigrants who commit rape and serious crime should be charged, tried and convicted in an open court with a fair trial"

And then deported.

Do you have anything to back up your contentions, other then your absurd fantasy land opinion? I'll bet, as per usual, you have nothing.

But, as per usual, I do. And its 86.6 percent in support of deportation just in Denmark.

http://www.cphpost.dk/news/1-latest-news/2456.html



"In the past I've heard you spout ridiculous nonsense about the Holocaust"

Rubbish. Only some aspects that were detailed in a previous post here and accepted by the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum and Simon Wiesenthal Center as fact.

Again, you are desperate with you nasty little argumentum-ad-honimen-in-lieu-of-on-topic-debate-exercise.

Put simply: You are a pathological liar who has been caught out time and time again, and at least twice just in that comment thread of yours keep irreverently invoking. People are not interested in it, you or your webrag. May as well give it up and try "developing your web presence" some other way.


"racial theory"

Not theory; irrefutable scientific fact, with which you and your PC rubbish were trounced.

Again, some sort of pathetic direction back to your webrag.

Get over it.


"Now 'Socialist Nazis'."

With all of the proof above to back up my contention, whilst below, all the proof you have to contend it:

"What next: shape shifting reptillian flesh eating Nazi socialist zombies?"


You really are a clown, Gertrude.

THR said...

There are a few low-altitude flyers here pushing the revisionist lie that the Nazis were leftist or centrist. The evidence is overwhelmingly to the contrary.

Hitler's welfare state was, in budgetary terms, smaller than that of the Weimar Republic. Contemporary leftists - see the Frankfurt school, for instance - have left us ample documentary evidence of the left being bitterly opposed to Nazism at the time of its coming to power. Go back and have a look at the serious scholarship on Nazism and fascism (i.e. not douchebag hacks like Goldberg) and you'll find confirmation that the Nazis were of the right. They ought to be distinguished from conservatives, it is true. They are more like radicalised conservatives. Nazis are to regular conservatives what Bolsheviks are to tepid social democrats, to draw a rough analogy.

THR said...

Even the Mufti of Australia agrees:

"[The Mufti of Australia]... Muslim leader Sheikh Taj al-Din al-Hilali has savaged Australia in an interview on Egyptian television.

The interview, in Arabic, was about the furore he created last year with a Ramadan sermon in which he compared scantily clad women with "uncovered meat", suggesting that they were responsible for rape, called women Satan's messengers to deceive men, and said thieves often stole because they were pressured by greedy women."


Sentinel, you're cherry-picking in the most pathetic way. The idiotic comments of the Mufti were roundly condemned by large sectors of Australia's Islamic community, most of whom don't grant any recognition to the Mufti in the first place. Sketch comedy shows even mocked the Mufti to his face. He represents almost nobody, and has no credibility in the eyes of Muslims.

The Sentinel said...

"There are a few low-altitude flyers here pushing the revisionist lie"

There is ample evidence of the NSDAP commitment to socialist policies above and of its commitment to a socialist welfare system, workers rights, and workers leisure welfare; and ample of evidence of its anti-capitalist policies.

The term revisionist is just another leftist Orwellian term for re-establishing already established fact.

The realties of history do not change through interpretation; something that once was true, was reality, will always be a reality.


"Hitler's welfare state was, in budgetary terms, smaller than that of the Weimar Republic"

Not even remotely true. The budget figures are above; in fact the NSDAP spending on social security doubled from 1938 to 1943, through and to the height of a world war.


"Contemporary leftists - see the Frankfurt school, for instance..."

The Frankfurt school, the father of PC.


"have left us ample documentary evidence of the left being bitterly opposed to Nazism at the time of its coming to power"

The internationalist left, yes.

The NSDAP were nationalist left.


"and you'll find confirmation that the Nazis were of the right"

Rightists, and especially the far right are not even slightly interested in instituting and maintaining massive social welfare programs (in occupied countries too) nor do they carry out such radical anti capitalist taxation and measures as detailed above; they are not at all interested in green issues and making environmental care a government responsibility nor are they interested in animal rights (the NSDAP were the first to ban vivisection) nor would they care about the health aspects of smoking in an age where its health aspects were not readily known, but its profitability was.

These are not the actions of the far right.


"Sentinel, you're cherry-picking in the most pathetic way."

I posted three quotes and you cherry picked one yourself so...

Do you really think I should post more quotes? There is no shortage.


"The idiotic comments of the Mufti were roundly condemned by large sectors of Australia's Islamic community"

Then they need to read the Koran for themselves and see that their chief Mufti - an Islamic scholar who is an interpreter and expounder of Islamic law (Sharia) - didn't pull it out of thin air.


"most of whom don't grant any recognition to the Mufti in the first place...He represents almost nobody, and has no credibility in the eyes of Muslims"

Wrong on all three counts.

To become a mufti he had to complete the Iftaa course - an intense Islamic scholar course - and then he has to pass five conditions set and judged by his peers - scholars : First: He must be a Muslim; Second: He must have reached the age of puberty; Third: He must be just and trustworthy. Fourth: Ijma (consensus) This is the opinion of a majority of the scholars; Fifth: He must have the qualities of intellect and be of a good mind.

The Australian Federation of Islamic Councils appointed him Mufti of Australia in 1988

So you are wrong on two counts that "most of whom don't grant any recognition to the Mufti in the first place" and "has no credibility in the eyes of Muslims"

And on the third count "He represents almost nobody" - he was the Mufti of Australia, qualified as above and appointed by consensus by as above.

He represented all muslims in Australia, just as the Pope represents all Catholics.

THR said...

There is ample evidence of the NSDAP commitment to socialist policies above and of its commitment to a socialist welfare system, workers rights, and workers leisure welfare; and ample of evidence of its anti-capitalist policies.

You're either a liar or a dribbling idiot. The Nazis either shut down workers movements, or created parallel, Nazified institutions. Far from being 'anti-capitalist', the capitalists of the day got on board, and many profited handsomeley from re-armament.

The Frankfurt school, the father of PC.


You've obviously never read a single page of any member of the Frankfurt school, as they had nothing to do with 'PC'. In any case, they were all German leftists, and all opposed to Nazism. They opposed Nazism even more than they opposed bourgeois conservativism. So obviously the leftists of the day didn't think that the Nazis were leftist.

Rightists, and especially the far right are not even slightly interested in instituting and maintaining massive social welfare programs (in occupied countries too) nor do they carry out such radical anti capitalist taxation and measures as detailed above;

What a cretin. Every developed nation in the world has a welfare state. The differences between Parliamentary left and right are marginal. You're obviously a liar and an idiot. Read Paxton's history of fascism, or some other scholarly source, before vomiting your ignorant swill all over the blogosphere.

As for Australia's Mufti - I think I know a bit more about it than you. There are actually many 'leaders' in Australia's Muslim community, and the Mufti to whom you referred represents only Muslims of Lebanese origin in Sydney's western suburbs. That's it. Even many of them criticised his idiotic comments. The situation is in know way comparable to the Pope. It'd be like saying that not only Catholics, but Baptists and Methodists were also subject to papal law.

The Sentinel said...

THR,

“You're either a liar or a dribbling idiot”

Well it didn’t take you long to get down to insults and argumentum ad honimen, now did it?


“The Nazis either shut down workers movements”

As proved above, with the links above, the Nazis not only strengthened workers rights and protection in Germany, they also did so in occupied countries, with employment protection that still stands to this day:

“In 2006, the PvdA (Socialists) blocked the loosening of Dutch employment protection. Some labor unions even termed this employment protection 'holy' However, this measure was also introduced by the Nazis.”


“or created parallel, Nazified institutions”

Like the parallel communist ones after 1917?

Either ways:

- The Nazis brought the automobile within reach of the people.

- They doubled the number of holidays for workers.

- They introduced agricultural subsidies for farmers to protect them against the risks of weather and a fickle world market.

- Prices of food were set by the government.

- The Nazis introduced the progressive income tax (still a “sacred” item for the leftist parties).

- Landlords were required to charge their tenants affordable rents.

- The legal position of tenants was strengthened.

- Child benefits were introduced.

- Pensions were increased.

- The only tax increase that hurt “the common man” was a 50% increase on the duty on tobacco and alcohol.

- And in the war a “special social benefit” was introduced: benefits for the cost of rent, insurance, coal, potatoes and other essential goods.


“Far from being 'anti-capitalist', the capitalists of the day got on board, and many profited handsomeley from re-armament.”

Also as referenced above:

“And the great industrialists? How did they do under Hitler? Companies had to pay 98% tax under Hitler. In some cases even 104% of profits had to be paid. And the weapons industry? The Nazis seized all “war-related” profits. Or, in the words of Hitler himself: “As long as there are soldiers fighting at the front, nobody will be allowed to make profits from the war.”

Investors had to hand in all dividends above 6% to the State. In 1941 this was followed by a special profit tax. In that year homeowners suddenly had to pay property tax in advance over the years ahead. An increase of residential rents was not allowed.”

The Sentinel said...

“You've obviously never read a single page of any member of the Frankfurt school, as they had nothing to do with 'PC'.”

Clearly you haven’t because critical theory was the father of PC.


“In any case, they were all German leftists, and all opposed to Nazism.”

They were internationalist.

The German National Socialist Workers Party were, well, Nationalists, and Socialists.


“So obviously the leftists of the day didn't think that the Nazis were leftist.”

Internationalists didn’t.


“What a cretin”

Insults in a debate – the sure sign of an idiotic zealot.


“Every developed nation in the world has a welfare state.”

Not then it didn’t, and especially not during the depression era.

Czechoslovakia never had one for instance. Until the Nazis introduced it, that is.



“You're obviously a liar and an idiot”

You’re not very good at this debating thing are you? Plenty of filler here.


“read Paxton's history of fascism, or some other scholarly source, before vomiting your ignorant swill all over the blogosphere.”

Bollocks to “Paxton's history of fascism” – read the evidence already presented before vomiting your ignorant swill all over the blogosphere.


“As for Australia's Mufti - I think I know a bit more about it than you.”

Clearly you don’t.

Clearly you know nothing about it at all, as I have quite comprehensively proven.


“There are actually many 'leaders' in Australia's Muslim community”

But only one Mufti of Australia appointed by the Australian Federation of Islamic Councils.

But go on; prove the existence of these “other Mufti’s of Australia” and their appointments by the Australian Federation of Islamic Councils.


“It'd be like saying that not only Catholics, but Baptists and Methodists were also subject to papal law.”

Seeing as Sheikh Taj El-Din Hamid Hilaly, the Mufti of Australia in question is Sunni, and given that 90% of the 318,940 Muslims in Australia are Sunni, your analogy is just as erroneous as the rest of your comments.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Islam


It is, pretty much as I said:

The Australian Federation of Islamic Councils appointed him Mufti of Australia in 1988

He represented all Muslims in Australia, just as the Pope represents all Catholics.

With perhaps the one minor modification that he merely represented 90% of all Muslims in Australia.


Do you think you might be in danger of looking like “a cretin, a liar or a dribbling idiot, vomiting your ignorant swill all over the blogosphere”?

Renegade Eye said...

Sentinel: I don't agree with Gert on Palestine, but I know Gert knows the difference between Jews and political Zionism. I didn't visit your blog often, because I didn't want to be seen supporting an antisemitic site.

Having social welfare reforms, is not only done by the left. I heard a speaker claim the Taliban were reformers, because they had a land reform program. The question is not who has the most social reforms. The question is which class is in power. Under fascism the capitalist class rules. In the US the Republican Party is claiming to be defenders of Medicare.

Does every post have to degenerate into a discussion about Muslims?

I don't understand why you are defensive about being called far right?

THR: The Frankfurt School fought both Stalinism and Nazism.

The term politically correct was invented by Trotsky. It meant anti-Stalin Bolsheviks.

Gert: It's hard to argue with someone, who thinks Keynesianism is socialism.

thr said...

My god this fellow is stupid.

You claim critical theory brought about PC. Prove it. Show that anti-discrimination laws and the like came from scholars of Adorno and Benjamin.

You claim to be a victim of ad hom argument. You obviously don't know what it means. When I tell you, Senile Sentinel, that you are the byproduct of multiple generations of incest, this may be perfectly true, but it is not the same as ad hom.

I'll start with your claims about the Mufti first. Here's some facts on the matter by a Sydney-based Muslim:


The Australian Federation of Islamic Councils (AFIC) created the position of “Mufti of Australia” to provide Acting Prime Minister Paul Keating with an excuse to grant Hilaly permanent residency back in the late 1980's. Hilaly was given no duty statement, no resources and no secretariat. His only assistant was former Lebanese Moslems Association (LMA) President Keysar Trad....

Yet in the Australian context, sharia limits its own jurisdiction to purely religious and ceremonial matters. One novel question which has dogged Australian Muslim communities is how to sight the new moon to determine the beginning and end of the fasting month of Ramadan. Do we use astronomical calculations? Or the naked eye? Or some combination of both?

On even something this basic, Muslims don’t feel obliged to follow Sheik Hilaly. Instead, they tend to follow the ethnic or linguistic Muslim community they feel closest to. It often happens that Sheik Hilaly celebrates the end of Ramadan while many (if not most) Muslims are still fasting.

Despite holding the grand title of “Mufti of Australia, New Zealand and the South Pacific”, at best Hilaly's influence is limited to a certain faction of Lebanese Sunni Muslims living in the cities of Canterbury, Auburn and Bankstown.

New Zealand's peak Muslim body issued a press release last October reiterating that Hilaly was not Mufti of New Zealand. Hilaly hasn't sent any religious delegation to the tsunami-ravaged Solomon Islands, nor have Muslims there requested one.

Even in his own backyard, Sheik Hilaly could not even manage to convince a sufficient number of Muslims to sign relevant forms to register his Peace Party in time for the NSW State Election...


The LMA, which manages the Imam Ali Mosque, lists Hilaly has one of five imams serving their congregation. This organisation, like most other mosque management bodies, is an ethno-religious body. It is well known in Muslim circles that the LMA's constitution limits full membership and voting rights to men eligible for Lebanese citizenship. Sheik Hilaly isn't known to have publicly opposed this membership apartheid, which hasn't won him any friends in non-Lebanese Muslim circles.


http://planetirf.blogspot.com/2007/04/agonising-over-hilalys-future.html

These facts are reasonably well-known to any Australian who has followed the matter, as the 'Mufti' received front page treatment for his silly remarks. Don't presume to know other people's situations better than they themselves know them, moron.

thr said...

As for as the peurile claim that the Nazis were leftist, it's beneath contempt, but here is some reading to begin with:

http://lacomplaintedupartisan.blogspot.com/2009/06/conservatism-and-fascism.html


Your claims about capitalism under the Nazis are horseshit, by the way. Little wonder that you have no credible sources to back up any of your claims.

Gert said...

Oh and I need to add to Sent's other follies the following past enquiries into the realm of nonsense:

- the belief that several human 'races' sprung into life at different places on the planet (racists really hate the 'out of Africa' concept).
- ridiculous attacks on Einstein's intellectual achievements, by reprinting an article by a most risible anti-Semite. An old canard that poses that Einstein stole the Lorentz Conjecture and that he was basically a poor matematician.
- obsessive listing of American Jews in positions of power or wealth.

Like I said, it's the realm of Jeff Rense...

The Pagan Temple said...

I for one don't know, nor do I care, about whether or not human beings came "out of Africa". I spend more time thinking about the motherfuckers I would like to SEND to Africa today.

A hint-most of them aren't black.

The Sentinel said...

Renegade Eye,

"but I know Gert knows the difference between Jews and political Zionism"

So you keep saying; but lots of people, many of them Jewish, frequently accuse him of anti-Semitism; I don't get that.


"I didn't visit your blog often, because I didn't want to be seen supporting an antisemitic site."

Pathetic low blow, and somewhat bizarre, like your last claim on Gert's blog that you defended him from my charges of anti-Semitism when even he admits that I never made any such charges.

There was no reason for any one to visit often as I never encouraged any 'community', didn't post for a 1/12 years and after that, only infrequently. But, every post I made, just like every comment I make, is backed up by independent credible evidence. If you had an issue with any of the posts you had ample opportunity to take it up there.

But I do notice you wanted to vist a couple of days ago? Why is that, I wonder?

And who were you afraid of displeasing in any case?

The simple truth is: Gert has been accused far more times and by far more people - many of them Jewish - of anti-Semitism; and I have never recieved hate mail either.


"Having social welfare reforms, is not only done by the left."

That is pure straw man because as has been proven it went far beyond just reforms; what they started was revolutionary in many countries other then just Germany and as a result Czechoslovakia got its first taste of socialist welfare and Holland still bases at least three parts of its welfare system and one employment protection law on what the Nazis started. And then there is the matter of the anti capitalist laws too...


"The question is which class is in power"

Hitler was a former tramp in Vienna, an odd job man and an ex-corporal.


"Under fascism the capitalist class rules"

The Nazis were very much a mixed bag, with its vangurd, the SS headed by a Chicken farmer and many of its Generals were of similar working class origins such as a petrol station attendant, a constable and a postman.


"Does every post have to degenerate into a discussion about Muslims?"

Again, why direct that question at me? It was Gert that brought that into this thread, not me. Why not direct it at him? I was only engaged in relevant thread debate, I repeatedly asked what the relevance of his nonsense was and to cease. And as you can see, he is at again after your comment.

Does honesty and integrity really only come to down to perceived political affiliation?



"I don't understand why you are defensive about being called far right?"

By the same token, I don't understand why you are defensive about being called a Stalinist.


"The term politically correct was invented by Trotsky. It meant anti-Stalin Bolsheviks."

The issue was not who may have coined the phrase - though Gert will be bitterly disappointed (and quite possibly enraged) to hear you admit it was a Marxist - but the system of cultural dialectics that evolved into the scourge of contemporary PC.


"Gert: It's hard to argue with someone, who thinks Keynesianism is socialism."

Again, most bizarre when Gert didn't bother engaging in any argument / debate about the subject at all. Just reams of personal comments and off topic nonsense.

It is also hard to argue / debate with someone - THR - who chooses to gratuitously claim that "you are the byproduct of multiple generations of incest" purely over a disagreement in what is supposed to be an open debate.

But I don't see you complaining about that piece of twisted filth.

The Sentinel said...

THR,

I am not a fan of profanity and insults at all, especially not in a debate, but seeing as this is as far removed from a debate as it can get I will make an exception.

You are, quite clearly just an ignorant mouthy fuckwit. A gobshite. A dense leftist thug. A proper dishonest lefty.

Every idiotic contention you have put forward has been demolished but still you persist.


"You claim to be a victim of ad hom argument. You obviously don't know what it means."

Again, the truth is clearly that you don't. Not a clue.

In just in two short, ignorant comments you managed to cram this in:

"a liar or a dribbling idiot / What a cretin / You're obviously a liar and an idiot / vomiting your ignorant swill all over the blogosphere / My god this fellow is stupid / Senile Sentinel / moron / you are the byproduct of multiple generations of incest"

Tell me, what is the definition of argumentum ad honimen in the fantasy world you inhabit?


"you are the byproduct of multiple generations of incest"

What a perverted imagination you have. The mind of a pedophile.

Well, you are in good company here. That makes three of you leftist fantasy thugs that comment on this blog now with the absolutely astounding, depraved but quite revealing smear - on the sole basis of evidenced opinion in a what is supposed to be an open debate - that invoke perverted claims of incest and / or sexual molestation of a children.

That's you, Gert and Larry Gambone.

And you have the front to call others fascists!!


"I'll start with your claims about the Mufti first. Here's some facts on the matter by a Sydney-based Muslim"

These are not facts. They are opinions. From a blog. A poxy blog.

You couldn't even find a credible independent source for your "horseshit" - no surprise as you couldn't even find a credible independent source for your bold and baseless crap about "There are actually many 'leaders' in Australia's Muslim community."

Here are the real facts about the then actual Mufti of Australia versus your fantasy:


"most of whom don't grant any recognition to the Mufti in the first place...He represents almost nobody, and has no credibility in the eyes of Muslims...He represents almost nobody"

To become a mufti he had to complete the Iftaa course - an intense Islamic scholar course - and then he had to pass five conditions set and judged by his peers - scholars : First: He must be a Muslim; Second: He must have reached the age of puberty; Third: He must be just and trustworthy. Fourth: Ijma (consensus) This is the opinion of a majority of the scholars; Fifth: He must have the qualities of intellect and be of a good mind.

It takes years of study and process, a deep understanding of the Koran, the respect of your peers, and a majority consensus and that is just to be a mufti.

Then, the Australian Federation of Islamic Councils appointed him Mufti of Australia in 1988; that is the head Mufti of all the Muftis of Australia (Sunni, not Cher) - he was the head in the region he was appointed in the same way as the pope.

So that's all of your initial crap blown out of the water...

The Sentinel said...

...

Then you came up this further piece of crap:

"The situation is in know way comparable to the Pope. It'd be like saying that not only Catholics, but Baptists and Methodists were also subject to papal law"

And again, the facts blow you out the water:

Sheikh Taj El-Din Hamid Hilaly, the Mufti of Australia in question is Sunni, and given that 90% of the 318,940 Muslims in Australia are Sunni - and he was the appointed Mufti of Australia, after long process by general consensus of the Australian Federation of Islamic Councils, who in turn were appointed respectively by their peers - it is quite clear that Sheikh Taj El-Din Hamid Hilaly was, in fact, akin to the authority of the pope and had enormous credibility in the eyes of muslims; at least 90% of them.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Islam


Those are the facts. And not from a blog either.

You are completely wrong, and normal people would have left it there, but then again you are just a fuckwit.


"These facts are reasonably well-known to any Australian who has followed the matter, as the 'Mufti' received front page treatment for his silly remarks."

The facts I presented above are. The one man opinions from you blog? Not really.

Front page news? Of course it was. Asides from the disgusting remarks I highlighted he also told Australian's that they didn't belong in their own country!

""Anglo-Saxons came to Australia in chains, while we (Muslims) paid our way and came in freedom. We are more Australian than them. Australia is not an Anglo-Saxon country — Islam has deep roots in Australian soil that were there before the English arrived"

But he didn't think he'd get caught out, now did he?

And of course, even in just the interview that caught him out, he wasn't alone. Fellow Islamic scholar Sheikh Khalid al-Jindi had this fascinating contribution on who is responsible for rape:


"Is it the flies' fault if the food is on display? If you put petrol and then add a spark, won't the street be on fire?"

Adib (Interviewer): "But where is the responsibility?"

Sheikh Jindi: "The responsibility is first, second and third with the woman — then with the man."


"Don't presume to know other people's situations better than they themselves know them"

I see, and you claim this as a Melbournite commenting on what is (at the moment) a Sydneyite issue? That's rich.

But the fact is that I lived in Australia for years and even ran a small business there. I'll bet I've seen more of your country then you have; and its problems.

But is even more rich when you butt in and don't even comprehend that the issue (that had been irrelevantly introduced into the tread) in this case was really about Scandinavia (and the quotes were just a summary of high ranking learned Islamic scholars thoughts on the issue) and the fact that:

In Denmark it has been revealed that muslims committed 68% of all rapes, and it was revealed that non-whites (muslims, the biggest non-white group) were over-represented in all crime by an average of 46% and in Copenhagen 47.5% of prisoners on remand for serious crimes were non-white. In Norway it was found that two out of three charged with rape in Oslo were of a "non-western" background (Again, muslims), whilst in Sweden it as found that a rapist was four times more likely to have been born abroad – with Algeria, Libya, Morocco and Tunisia dominating the group of rape suspects and that non-whites were responsible for 25% of all crime in Sweden.

But seeing as you want to include Australia and its problems too, how about this from your hometown:

"A survey in Australia found that in Melbourne magistrate’s courts, offenders from the horn of Africa and the Middle East (Somali, Sudanese and Arab muslims) were 20 times the representative proportion of their population…"

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,,21166482-661,00.html

(Links for the rest are already on this blog)

...

The Sentinel said...

...

"You claim critical theory brought about PC. Prove it. Show that anti-discrimination laws and the like came from scholars of Adorno and Benjamin."

Whats the point?

You're a waste of time fuckwit.

You can cast pearls before swine...


"As for as the peurile claim that the Nazis were leftist, it's beneath contempt, but here is some reading to begin with"

Again, a blog. A poxy blog. A blog is not a source you fool.


"Your claims about capitalism under the Nazis are horseshit, by the way. Little wonder that you have no credible sources to back up any of your claims"

Again, very rich coming from someone who thinks a blog is a credible source!

But my sources include the official Dutch social security websites, mainstream news articles, an extreme leftist site and the meticulous research of a world renowned scholar and author, presently the visiting professor for interdisciplinary Holocaust research at the Fritz Bauer Institut in Frankfurt am Main.

Fuckwit.

The Sentinel said...

Gert,

Again, you play the argumentum ad honimen card. Again it is another pathetic see through attempt by another idiotic leftist thug, who is frequently flagged as an anti-semite.

And what has this to do with this thread?

Why don't you just get down to it with your special friend THR in your joint perversions, and just fantasises about me being sexually abused as a child again? Like you have done so many times before.

You sick piece of work. I genuinely fear for your daughter.

Gert said...

Sent:

"[...] who is frequently flagged as an anti-semite."

There are some who are too dumb to distinguish criticism of Israel and Zionism from anti-Semitism and there are those who deliberately try and blur the lines for political reasons. As you well know. Don't play dumb (or should that be dumber?)

And for the last time: it's AD HOMINEM. Get it right, it might make you look a little less like a twat.

My daughter will be very amused by your 'concern'.

The Pagan Temple said...

Yeah, Gert, I'm sure the actual concept of you trying to have sex with her is something she would find fucking hilarious.

The Sentinel said...

So you really want to continue down this irrelevant, off topic, argumentum ad hominem road. How bizarre. All to generate publicity for your webrag (Step no 2 on your list, I believe) – didn’t seem to do your business much good though did it? – But, OK, if that what you want, I’ll indulge you one more time, you dirty old crank.

Here is your link for starters.

http://developing-your-web-presence.blogspot.com/

OK, now lets get down to the game you want to play:


“There are some who are too dumb to distinguish criticism of Israel and Zionism from anti-Semitism…”

Really? Is that it? Because there are lots, and lots of opinions on that Gertrude that vary quite wildly from your version.

Amongst many, many examples to choose from, just for instance, quite a few seemed to think one blatant symptom was because you choose to call Israelis – Jews - “the new herrenvolk.”

Sparked a few comment that one; here’s a small sample:


“And by the way, instead of whimpering that when you called Israelis “herrenvolk” you didn’t mean to imply they were Nazis, why not look inward and consider why you made that particular comparison. From reading your posts in this thread and others, the answer is quite clear, as you have consistently referred to Israelis/Zionists as nazis (zionazis, zionutzies, etc. etc. ad nauseam).”


“So is Gert, another disgusting specimen who is quite openly calling Israel “Nazis”.”

http://www.hurryupharry.org/2009/05/07/%E2%80%9Cseven-jewish-children%E2%80%9D-an-incitement-to-hatred/


“Gert: I don’t assume nothing for the sake of argument with you, I don’t argue with Holocaust-baiters. Once you’ve used the phrase Herrenvolk in reference to Jews, you lost any right to civilised argument.”

http://www.hurryupharry.org/2009/05/09/penalty-points-on-a-poetic-licence/


And a good many comment boxes are filled with similar; the general does not seem to be very good with talk of you being an anti-semites, a racist, a far-rightist and a Nazi.

Oh dear. How ironic.

The Sentinel said...

But one of my personal favorites, revealing so many facets of what a demented and perverted crackpot you really are is this comment on Modernity:-

-- At the thread on Iran’ nuclear program over at Harry’s Place (thread which I know consider closed), you made the following remark, in response to IsraeliNurse:

“On the contrary far-right nutters, like Gert, need their posts saved and replayed to remind others what nasty racist filth they truly are.

Gert, like most Jew obsessed cranks, lets his contempt for Jews seep out after a while, sure enough he’ll try to hide it when he can, but such filth comes out eventually and reveals his underlying neurosis.

Just give him a bit of time and Gert will do a David Irving star turn!”

IsraeliNurse’s expression of ‘revulsion’ was at my comment:

“….”

“I wonder how you would have reacted had I said something similar about your (Jewish) tits.” --


It was just all too much for you!! You couldn’t fathom how your comment about “Jewish tits” could invoke such disgust and backlash!!!

So you then launch into a lengthy, fantastic rant to explain it which is met with this succinct riposte:


“Gert,

Do me a favour, FUCK off.

I have NO time for Far Righters like you. Clear enough?

Now FUCK off.”

http://modernityblog.wordpress.com/2009/04/22/holocaust-denier-in-geneva/


The demented, twisted weirdness of it all!

I have long said you were a nutcase Gert, and are you ever.

It would be entertaining if you were not a father.


“And for the last time: it's AD HOMINEM. Get it right, it might make you look a little less like a twat.”

Do you ever get sick of being wrong and looking like a total twat? Do you nut job?

ad hominem is the abbreviated form of argumentum ad hominem – from the Latin “argument to the person” so when I use it, it is correct in fully in context to your crap; whereas when you use it, it merely means “to the person.”

Best to stick to simpler phrases like “Jewish tits” – you Belgian tit.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem



“My daughter will be very amused by your 'concern'.”

Well now, Gert, I am not the only one to raised concern now am I?

But my concern stems from your twisted fantasies of me being sexually abused as a child, which you so effortlessly invoked over a mere online political disagreement.

Nasty, Gratuitous, bizarre, extreme, yes. But from when did it come, Gert, from whence did it come…

Anonymous said...

The Sentinel is a racist fucking cunt.

Gert said...

Jeff:

Your invocation of Harry's Place is real funny: HP is the laughing stock of the entire British anti-Zionist blogosphere. Their commenters are typical examples of people who deliberately shut down (or try to) any debate by calling opponents anti-Semites. And more besides that: Hasbara Buster, Tony Greenstein and me have all been banned from that site. One of their commenters (Vildechaye - a particularly nasty piece of work) also had me banned from another pro-Israel blog.

These are the guys who call anyone who supports even as little a two state solution 'Hamasniks'.

And Modernityblog? He openly stated that anti-Zionists are simply anti-Semites that substitute the word 'Jews' with 'Zionists'. Pathetic little fool...

"But my concern stems from your twisted fantasies of me being sexually abused as a child, which you so effortlessly invoked over a mere online political disagreement."

I made a joke about you being sexually abused ONCE. About three years ago. ONCE. I'm not proud of it. I've nothing to do with Larry Gambone or THR.

Herrenvolk? Israelis do indeed often behave like that. Colonisers always do: they come first, the natives are second-class. White Aparheidists behaved like that also. And there is a strong parallel between SA Apartheid and Israeli policies vis-à-vis the Palestinians and Palestinian territory. Undeniably so... Those who get upset about the epithet are those who consider the colonisation of Palestine to entirely normal and desirable. Like most HPers...

"Israelis – Jews - “the new herrenvolk.”"

I never equate Jews and Israelis, they're not the same for several reasons. And Israeli behaviour can sometimes be Naziesque but I don't consider Israelis to be Nazis. I wrote an essay about it on my blog called "Why Israelis aren't Nazis". I stand by it. I rarely need to use the term 'Jew' because my beef isn't with Jews but with Zionists (Jewish or non-Jewish alike).

It's Israel that pretends to speak for all Jews. Well, ask Ren how he feels about that. Or better, ask the multitude of diaspora Jews who state: 'Not in my name!' These people then get called 'self-hating' Jews. Oh boy...

" It was just all too much for you!! You couldn’t fathom how your comment about “Jewish tits” could invoke such disgust and backlash!!!"

She was being given a taste of her own medicine, if you had bothered to read the context you'd see that.

"[...] as you have consistently referred to Israelis/Zionists as nazis (zionazis, zionutzies, etc. etc. ad nauseam).”"

NEVER. Zionutzies, yes. Nazis, no. Zionazis, no. NEVER. Not even once. The commenter in question was simply smearing. Or a case of over-heated imagination.

Finally, I disagree with Zionism as an ideology but don't discriminate against Zionist individuals. I have Zionist friends, on the Internet and in 'real life'. Two 'progressive Zionists' (bit of an oxymoron in my book) feature on my blogroll (Emmanuel and Alex Stein).

The Sentinel said...

"anonymous"

"The Sentinel is a racist fucking cunt"

Tut tut.

First FJ's a cunt; now me.

Go on, put the "subhuman" in there. You know you want to.

Why don't you just post under your own name?

We all know who you are!!! You wouldn't fool a 5 year old.

The Sentinel said...

Gert,

Are you serious?

People actually use labels to deliberately shut down debate? Do people really do that sort of thing?

And you don't like being labelled? Why on earth not? Why are you so defensive...


Shall we put a stop this irrelevent, off-topic argumentum ad hominem now?

thr said...

Intellectual titan Sentinel thinks that abuse is the same as ad hom.

He thinks that blogs aren't legitimate sources, even when said blogs are contain actual references.

He thinks he can speak for Australia's entire Muslim community.

He insinuates that Muslims are responsible from crime, not knowing that many Sudanese and Somali refugees are actually Christians.

He claims, perhaps having read Pat Buchanan, that the Frankfurt school created 'PC', but is unable to offer any evidence.

He makes lots of wild claims about capitalism under Hitler, essentially trying to rebadge a kind of military Keynesianism as 'socialism'.

In sum, Sentinel is a dishonest, unflushable turd, and his ridiculous arguments are borne of arrogance, rather than fact.

The Pagan Temple said...

Sentinel-

"Why don't you just post under your own name?

"We all know who you are!!! You wouldn't fool a 5 year old."

Now, now, let's not be too hard on poor Daniel. I don't think he's purposely trying to be deceptive. He's just accidentally got caught in the "wrong blogger profile".

The Sentinel said...

THR,

And here he is again: The sexual deviant fantasist.

When he is not dreaming of incest he is banging the drum for socialism.

You really do have a serious sexual and psychotic problem there son, you do know that right? The mindset of a pedophile – and if that to big a word for you I’ll use your own parlance – a rock spider.

And I see you are at again with your sexually perverse sadomasochistic style of the third person ‘it-puts-the-lotion-in-the-basket’ verbiage.

What a twisted little piece of work you are.

But, just for grins, and because I can, having already smashed down your house of cards twice – every time you build them up, I’ll smash them back down again and keep on showing everyone what a perverse muppet you really are.


"Intellectual titan Sentinel thinks that abuse is the same as ad hom"

Its not hard to appear as an "Intellectual titan" over a fuckwit; and at least you acknowledge that you offer nothing other then twisted abuse, whilst its no surprise to see that your definition of "ad hom" is the definition of a fuckwit.

But again, the truth of the matter, the actual definition of the word is from the Latin “argument to the person" – everything you have spewed out is pure argumentum ad hominem.

You are a credit to your creed.


"He thinks that blogs aren't legitimate sources, even when said blogs are contain actual references."

Are they like drinks that contain actual fruit juice?

Fuckwit.

Blogs are not legitimate sources. Only actual legitimate references are.

Credible sources in this debate included: The official Dutch social security websites, mainstream news articles, an extreme leftist site and the meticulous research of a world renowned scholar and author, presently the visiting professor for interdisciplinary Holocaust research at the Fritz Bauer Institut in Frankfurt am Main.
Fuckwit.


“He thinks he can speak for Australia's entire Muslim community.”

No, as comprehensively established, that’s the job of the Mufti of Australia. Who thinks rape is a woman’s fault – uncovered meat, apparently.

The Sentinel said...

"He insinuates that Muslims are responsible from crime, not knowing that many Sudanese and Somali refugees are actually Christians."

Well, there are two ways to look at that absurd crap.

One is from your fantasy perspective, that "many Christian Sudanese and Somali" are "20 times the representative proportion of their population" as criminal offenders in Melbourne.

Or then there is the reality, which is that Sudan has less then 5% Christians, whilst Somalia has none on record and so my original contention, surprise, surprise, is right yet again: “(Somali, Sudanese and Arab muslims) were 20 times the representative proportion of their population…"

And guess what fuckwit?

Both are Sunni (not cher) and so fall under the Mufti of Australia too.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_Somalia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sudan#Religion_in_Sudan

Yet again, you are exposed as either “a liar or a dribbling idiot” who is “vomiting your ignorant swill all over the blogosphere.”

Oh you just have to love fuckwits.

But, just for good measure, I’m going to beat you with the truth stick a little more on this matter:


"AUSTRALIA is set to drastically reduce its Sudanese refugee program this year.

With growing community concern about the behaviour of the refugees, Federal Cabinet will soon consider a proposal from Immigration Minister Kevin Andrews to reduce the intake from Horn of Africa nations.

Australia's humanitarian program has allowed thousands of Sudanese refugees to come to Australia in recent years.

But there are growing doubts about the wisdom of the decision, especially with the rise of gangs of Sudanese youths…”

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,,21166482-661,00.html


“VICTORIAN police are being urged to set up a special taskforce to tackle gang violence and lawlessness among young African migrants living in Melbourne's inner-city housing commission estates.

The push - led by rank-and-file police and terrified neighbours - is backed by the state's powerful police union, which claims sections of the African community need to be "properly educated" in Australian values.

"The Sudanese are very difficult to deal with - they come from a lawless background and they really have to be properly educated about Australian society's standards," the Police Association secretary, Senior Sergeant Paul Mullett, told The Australian.”

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,21013233-2702,00.html


“IMMIGRANTS may have to wait a year to get a taxi licence because almost all of the suspects in 24 reported driver sex assaults since June were newcomers to Australia.

The Taxi Council of SA also wants to educate immigrant applicants about "the Australian way of life" before they get behind the wheel, amid fears that cultural differences are linked to the problem…

"We are talking to multicultural organisations . . . so we can get better information to (drivers). They have to be aware of the Australian way of life," he said.”

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,21114425-421,00.html

The Sentinel said...

“He claims, perhaps having read Pat Buchanan, that the Frankfurt school created 'PC', but is unable to offer any evidence.”

Evidence to an ignorant fuckwit that wouldn’t know the truth if it took him down the bar and celebrated diversity with him?

Pearls before swine, son, pearls before swine.

But I tell you what, seeing as there is an open thread at the moment, if you politely acknowledge that the overwhelming credible evidence I have thrown in your face has proven you wrong on every piece of crap you have posted here, I will educate you on this subject too.


“He makes lots of wild claims about capitalism under Hitler, essentially trying to rebadge a kind of military Keynesianism as 'socialism'.”

No wild claims fuckwit.

All fully established above and with real, credible references.

Not blogs.


“In sum, Sentinel is a dishonest, unflushable turd, and his ridiculous arguments are borne of arrogance, rather than fact.”


In sum, once again, THR has been thoroughly proven to be a dishonest, unflushable turd, and his ridiculous arguments have been smashed against the rock of truth.

Ridiculous arguments borne of ignorance and arrogance, rather than fact; with a good measure of the perverted mindset that fantasies about sexual deviancy of the worst kind and uses sadomasochistic control semantics.


A real credit to socialism, all in all.

Gfresh said...

You seem to have gotten a few nutters Renegade!

The Sentinel said...

"You seem to have gotten a few nutters Renegade!"

Too right; but I only count two of them so far mate, one of whom fanstisies about incest.

thr said...

Too right; but I only count two of them so far mate, one of whom fanstisies about incest.

Sentinel, you're the one who is bringing up pedophilia with every comment. It's obviously on your mind. You should get that checked out, champ.

The Sentinel said...

THR,

You are the one who fantasies about incest, the sure mark of a pedophile.

You should check that out champ.

thr said...

Shorter Sentinel: 'I know you are, but what am I?'.

The Sentinel said...

All very clever I’m sure.

What it really does say though is - that beyond your issues with fantasy’s about interrelation sex acts, which you will have to work hard on - you have finally accepted that your contentions are absurd, without foundation in reality, evidence less , and can be easily torn apart by the appliance of fact and reality and are consequentially not worth pursuing, lest you look more of a fuckwit then you already do.

Progress.

Happy to educate.

THR said...

Sheesh. I suggested that you were inbred, Sentinel. Correctly, as it turns out, as, like a monomaniac, you've since proceeded to discuss paedophilia on every single comment.

Your entire output here is either lies, distortions, or, in the rare instances you've produced facts, they're so out of context as to be unrecognisable.


Take your claim about Kevin Andrews, for instance. You cited an article that said:

With growing community concern about the behaviour of the refugees, Federal Cabinet will soon consider a proposal from Immigration Minister Kevin Andrews to reduce the intake from Horn of Africa nations.

Australia's humanitarian program has allowed thousands of Sudanese refugees to come to Australia in recent years.


If you'd actually done your research properly, you'd know a little bit about the context of this. Andrews did, in fact, announce a reduction on the intake of African refugees in 2007. This was during an election campaign. Andrews is from the Liberal party (Australia's conservatives) and they'd won previously on race-baiting. So, Andrews gave a press statement advising that there'd be fewer African refugees taken in, and implied that this was because of problems of crime and 'assimilation'.

The statement backfired, as immediately after, Victorian police released a statement that Africans were actually proportionally under-represented in crime stats. Andrews was further smacked down when the relevant government department revealed that whilst yes, there would be fewer Africans accepted as refugees, it had nothing to do with assimilation. The Dept of Immigration had made a decision some years earlier that the refugee focus would be on Asia (specifically Burma) since that's Australia's neighbourhood, roughly speaking, and on Iraq and Afghanistan, given the troop commitments there. (The race-baiting tactics also backfired more generally, as the Liberal Party suffered a significant swing against it, and lost power).

You need to engage your brain before using google. You might make fewer embarrassing slip-ups like this, and 'consequentially' (sic) look like less of an inbred douchebag.

The Sentinel said...

THR

I just knew a gobshite fuckwit like you would just have to put his turkey neck on the block once again.


"Sheesh. I suggested that you were inbred"

On the basis of of mere online disagreement your first recourse is to extreme and depraved sexual theories.

You fantasised about incest with such ease and with such rapid normality that it is clearly a feature of your mindset; at the forefront of you thoughts, ready to emerge at any time. Incest itself is the mark of the pedophile, and actually fantasising about - especialy in public - is the sign of a very sick mind.

You need help, you really do.


"Your entire output here is either lies, distortions, or, in the rare instances you've produced facts, they're so out of context as to be unrecognisable."

Then prove it fuckwit, as I have already proved that your word is worth nothing, that you make up the most fantastic stories; that you are a depraved liar.

It is the mark of the extremist left like you - fascist thugs - as is the delusional response of "its all lies, distortions" - it can't be true because it goes against everything I believe in.

Like I have many times before, reality is your enemy because the truth is not on your side.

It just isn't.

The truth, yet again, is that it is not even my output at all; I have just been the conduit for the independent evidence that demolishes all of your fantasy positions.

Like your complete fantasy of me "not knowing that many Sudanese and Somali refugees are actually Christians" when clearly, as proven, that is utter rubbish pulled out of your arse. A stupid PC lie. As was your equally stupid rubbish that the Mufti of Australia not representing any one or having any credibility amognst muslims, when the reality is that he had gone through rigorous Islamic study, process and thorough Islamic consensus.

You are lying fuckwit and its all laid out for everyone to see.

And there is more to come:


"If you'd actually done your research properly...fewer African refugees taken in, and implied that this was because of problems of crime and 'assimilation'...The statement backfired, as immediately after, Victorian police released a statement that Africans were actually proportionally under-represented in crime stats"

Hmm. Really?

You see, if you'd done your research properly (or even at all) you would have found that the reality is far from Andrews being a politically motivated liar, it was in fact Nixon who was the politically motivated liar.

Andrews was telling the truth about African crime; it was Nixon who was lying; which, as someone who lives in country run by the PC junta, I fully expect to be the case every time and you should get used to it too now.

Here is the reality below:

The Sentinel said...

"CHRISTINE Nixon has proved we still can't hold a frank and honest debate on immigration.
Worse, our supposedly apolitical Chief Commissioner of Police has showed that by giving us false crime figures just before the federal election.

These were figures that made African refugees in Victoria seem law-abiding, rather than so law-breaking that as many as one in 10 Sudanese immigrants might have been investigated for alleged crimes.

In so misinforming us just weeks before the poll, Nixon not only helped to turn voters against the Howard government, but hid from us the terrible scale of a crime problem her police now struggle to contain.

And, most miserably, she fed a campaign of abuse against the immigration affairs minister, Kevin Andrews, that was so vitriolic it may have ended an honest man's career...

It took more than a year - until this week, in fact, - for me to belatedly decide to check Nixon's figures, that had persuaded me and many others to hit Andrews rather than heed him.

My suspicions had been mounting, you see. Police on the front lines were telling me of the trouble they had with African gangs - a term banned by Nixon to reassure the public.

African gangs even fought a battle in Highpoint Shopping Centre, and Indian cabbies meanwhile complained of being robbed by Africans in the inner city and around the Flemington housing commission flats.

In the past six weeks alone, 16 robberies or armed robberies have been reported to police in just Flemington and Ascot Vale, all blamed on Africans. But last week we discovered how slow is police command to confront criminals from this ethnic group - and add to the crime statistics.

It dropped charges against men arrested at a confrontation last December in which some 100 Africans surrounded 21 police and sent one to hospital with suspected cracked ribs.

Sen-Sgt Mario Benedetti, in charge of Moonee Ponds police station, says he suspects the charges were dropped because of the alleged offenders' race. Other police involved tell me the same, adding that the charges were dropped without their knowledge or consent.

But what ultimately pushed me to check Nixon's figures at last was an admission last week by a senior South Australian policeman after two Sudanese gangs clashed in Adelaide, leaving one boy dead.

Deputy Commissioner Gary Burns conceded his force faced "an emerging, probably contemporary, policing issue". Over the past 16 months, 450 offences had been committed by 93 members of Adelaide's 1500-strong Sudanese community.

His figures, if accurate, are astonishing. That's one in 16 Sudanese immigrants in Adelaide committing a crime, on average, every three months.

And so I checked at last Nixon's assurances about crime among our own African refugees.

The Victoria Police Crime Statistics 2006-07 records that 115 Somalis allegedly committed a crime that year. Given the 2006 Census says 2626 Somalia-born people live in Victoria, the police figures mean one in 23 Somalis was allegedly involved in crime in just one year. For the rest of us, it's just one in 85.

The police statistics for some reason do not include separate figures for Victorians born in Sudan. But Nixon last year said Sudanese made up "about 1 per cent of the people we deal with" - or about 600 of the 60,000 alleged offenders in 2006-07.

With 6206 Sudanese in Victoria, according to the Census, that means around one in 10 is an alleged criminal."

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,24672971-25717,00.html



So you see THR, yet again you are proved wrong; proved to be a stupid ignorant fanatical amateur. A fuckwit.

I love how you will believe anything in the media and form politicians if affirms your view, but shut down on anything that contradicts it.

The Sentinel said...

"Andrews was further smacked down when the relevant government department revealed that whilst yes, there would be fewer Africans accepted as refugees, it had nothing to do with assimilation."

Given that Andrews was the HEAD of the relevant government department, your unsubstantiated claims make no sense. And seeing as they never slowed the intake down in any case it would seem quite obvious that that too is yet another lie.

Here is what the then IMMIGRATION Minister Kevin Andrews had to say:

"I have been concerned that some groups don't seem to be settling and adjusting into the Australian way of life as quickly as we would hope and therefore it makes sense to put the extra money in to provide extra resources, but also to slow down the rate of intake from countries such as Sudan."

http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2007/10/01/1191091031242.html


And what the succesive minister had to say:

"Minister for Immigration and Citizenship, Senator Chris Evans, said no freeze had been imposed on the intake of African refugees and processing of applications continued. "African migration continues and we want to do more next year. The previous minister's comments were politically motivated," he said."

http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/ban-on-african-refugees-all-talk/2008/03/08/1204780126634.html

Thats right; he actually wants more. Even though he is fully aware of the massive impact on crime that will have - that is to say the massive impact on ordinary Australians who have to live amongst it.

That is how much your fresh but creepingly entrenched PC junta care about Australians.

The Sentinel said...

Here are the real facts (long after your PC hero Nixons lies) - as Andrews knew and bravely said - about the foreign and African exponentially disproportionate impact on crime:

"PEOPLE born overseas committed one in seven of crimes in Victoria last financial year, including a quarter of rapes and one in five murders.

Exclusive police statistics also show immigrants were behind a quarter of robberies, a fifth of sex assaults, abductions and kidnappings, and 3792 assaults...

The anatomy of crime in Victoria, obtained by the Sunday Herald Sun, shows those born in Somalia, Lebanon and New Zealand had the highest crime-per-population rates in Victoria.

They are followed by Turkish, Vietnamese and then Australian-born criminals."

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,23342911-2862,00.html



"POLICE are advising the Immigration Department for the first time about how and where to settle troubled African refugees.

Senior Victorian police have urged the department to settle Sudanese families in country towns such as Mildura and Sale, away from suburban Melbourne where young African men are being caught up in street crime...

The Australian understands that police first appealed to immigration officials last year following a spike in criminal activity among young Sudanese men, while Chief Commissioner Christine Nixon was attempting to play down the problem...

Victoria Police's multicultural liaison officer, Joseph Herrech said helping Sudanese refugees to settle in Melbourne was a challenge for immigration officials and police.

He said grouping the Sudanese together at times led to crime-related problems...

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,23427313-421,00.html


Again, note the third paragraph:

"The Australian understands that police first appealed to immigration officials last year following a spike in criminal activity among young Sudanese men, while Chief Commissioner Christine Nixon was attempting to play down the problem"

Starting to sink in now, fuckwit?

You were all lied to.



"You need to engage your brain before using google"

You need to engage your brain before using a keyboard.

Anything else you need educating on?

You dont even know what is REALLY happening in your country, you fuckwit.

And even worse, you don't want to know because your political idiocy says it cannot be true, even when it is.

That's the house of cards that the extreme left is built on. That is why reality is your enemy.



"You might make fewer embarrassing slip-ups like this"

Ha ha ha, choke on that, Fuckwit.


"and 'consequentially' (sic) look like less of an inbred douchebag"

Get help you sick pedophile pervert.

Fuckwit.

THR said...

What an unhinged bigot and crackpot.

Here's the evidence that Andrews was lying:

The Age reported earlier this month that Mr Andrews had been acting contrary to advice from his department when he cited the failure of the Sudanese to integrate as a reason for cutting African refugee numbers.

In 2007-08, Australia allocated 30% of refugee places to Africans, down from 70% in 2004-05.

The Immigration Department maintained this was because of an improvement in some African countries and the need to help Iraqis displaced by war and Burmese refugees living in camps on the Thai-Burma border.

But Mr Andrews appeared to contradict this when he claimed, after the fatal bashing of Sudanese refugee Liep Gony, that the refugee intake from places such as Sudan had been cut amid fears that "some groups don't seem to be settling and adjusting into the Australian life as quickly as we would hope".


http://www.theage.com.au/national/mp-stirred-up-racial-hostility-20080530-2k0a.html

So either Andrews is lying, or the Department is. Andrews has form on dishonesty, as he was involved in the bungled investigation and persecution of Indian national and doctor, Mohammed Haneef. And just to be clear here, Andrews used the murder of a Sudanese man by white Australians as the occasion to make claims about a lack of Sudanese 'integration'.

The Sentinel said...

Pathetic.

Is that really the best you can come up with?

You really are a complete fuckwit.

After all of your indignant and smug bluff and bluster about how the crime figures regarding Africans massively disproportionate, massively exponentially impact on the crime rate was all a lie? – In your words it all “backfired, as immediately after, Victorian police released a statement that Africans were actually proportionally under-represented in crime stats”

That was what all your crap was built on.

When the reality is that the only lie came from your Commissioner of Police – supposedly apolitical – and the truth is that Africans ARE hugely overrepresented in crime.

Why doesn’t the lie that came from the head of the police that led to an honest man being hounded and smeared against and the electorate being fed blatantly false information outrage you?

Let me hazard a guess. It’s because you only care about the truth if you think it helps your nasty PC wet dream; if it doesn’t you couldn’t give a rat’s arse about the truth. In fact you applaud Nixon’s lies don’t you? Job done. If that didn’t work smear the man as inbred, eh?

This is the reality of the nasty, underhanded games that the PC junta employ, like seasoned practitioners of Banana republic democracy:


“Worse, our supposedly apolitical Chief Commissioner of Police has showed that by giving us false crime figures just before the federal election.

These were figures that made African refugees in Victoria seem law-abiding, rather than so law-breaking that as many as one in 10 Sudanese immigrants might have been investigated for alleged crimes.

In so misinforming us just weeks before the poll, Nixon not only helped to turn voters against the Howard government, but hid from us the terrible scale of a crime problem her police now struggle to contain.

And, most miserably, she fed a campaign of abuse against the immigration affairs minister, Kevin Andrews, that was so vitriolic it may have ended an honest man's career…

But here's the central point. Last year Nixon told us Sudanese refugees, if not all African refugees, were "under-represented in the crime statistics". In fact, we now know they're over-represented -- by as much as eight times.

Andrews was right to worry and urge caution. Nixon was wrong to challenge his figures. And we, who relied on Nixon's assurances, were grossly unfair to damn Andrews as a racist and a hatemonger for merely doing his duty. I'm sorry for my part in that.”

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,24672971-25717,00.html

The Sentinel said...

Africans are EIGHT TIMES over represented. That is the truth.

Starting to sink through now, albeit slowly, fuckwit?

The only liars here is the one you were championing (and you knew that already) and what a deliberate, perverse, disgusting and politically inspired lie it was too.

Not only did this nasty piece of PC work undermine an entire election and the democratic process with her lies, but she sold out the very organization that she is paid to head; the police had been virtually begging for action to be taken and were even so desperate that began advising that further African immigrants be spread around so that they wouldn’t have to contend with all the resultant crime in their area.

In a sane and healthy society, Nixon would face trial for her actions.

But you waffle on about Andrews still.

And even on that there are obvious lies, as I have already pointed out, when what he said was:

"I have been concerned that some groups don't seem to be settling and adjusting into the Australian way of life as quickly as we would hope and therefore it makes sense to put the extra money in to provide extra resources, but also to slow down the rate of intake from countries such as Sudan."

http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2007/10/01/1191091031242.html


And what actually happened when he was replaced, spurred on by the lies against him, was not only did the African programme continue anyway, but they actually intend to increase it.

"Minister for Immigration and Citizenship, Senator Chris Evans, said no freeze had been imposed on the intake of African refugees and processing of applications continued. "African migration continues and we want to do more next year. The previous minister's comments were politically motivated," he said."

http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/ban-on-african-refugees-all-talk/2008/03/08/1204780126634.html

Despite knowing full well that Andrews was completely right and the problems it will bring.

And if you are in any doubt about the problems it will bring I can quite easily refer you many other countries current experience of exponential and disproportionate crime, here is the UK for one:

In the UK it was leaked that 73% of those charged with knife crime were non-white (whist white victims made up the largest group) Over 70 per cent of London’s gun suspects were black, as were 50 per cent of the victims. In 80% of gang rape cases, the defendants were black. There are five times more young blacks in prison then whites.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1036833/Over-half-young-knife-suspects-black-Scotland-Yard-figures-reveal.html

http://www.itv.com/PressCentre/InTheLineOfFire/Ep1Wk07/default.html

http://www.newstatesman.com/199811200011

http://www.bbc.co.uk/1xtra/tx/black_crime.shtml


Like I said, reality is your enemy and the truth is not on your side.

This PC insanity is all built on a house of cards, and is perpetuated by nasty depraved fascist PC thugs like you and Nixon who tell the most horrendous lies and use the most horrendous smears to shout down the truth and attempt to ruin any dissenters personally.

But history shows us that no tyranny is infinite.

Stick to your incest fantasy’s fuckwit.

It’s all you’re good for.

The Pagan Temple said...

As long as its the lower classes that suffer for the crimes of immigrants, the liberal left politicians won't do anything to stop them. That's just the way the game's played. Any working class person who thinks the left has their interests at heart is sadly deluded. When an immigrant person of color commits a crime against a poor working class white, no matter what that crime is, they'll find a way to rail against the allegedly underlying racism of the white victim that somehow is responsible for the assault.

What poor working class whites need to do is spread lies about how leftist liberal mostly white elitists have secret dungeons under their mansions where they hold gold and precious stones and where they keep kidnapped immigrant women working as slaves, including for sexual purposes, and see how long it takes the enraged immigrant community to storm the mansions and set fire to them, and rape and murder their wives and children.

I bet at that point the left won't be able to get them out of the country fast enough. They'll probably convince the ignorant liberal Democrats in America to take them in over here.

THR said...

And, most miserably, she fed a campaign of abuse against the immigration affairs minister, Kevin Andrews, that was so vitriolic it may have ended an honest man's career…

Christ you are stupid. firstly, Andrews' career was never ended. He's stil the Federal Member for Menzies. Secondly, it wasn't only Nixon who contradicted Andrews, but his own department. Andrews himself was forced to concede that his claims about Africans were not based on stats at all, but on anecdotal 'feedback'.

But watch out for those scary Africans under the bed, Sentinel.

Gert said...

Pagan:

"What poor working class whites need to do is spread lies about how leftist liberal mostly white elitists have secret dungeons under their mansions where they hold gold and precious stones and where they keep kidnapped immigrant women working as slaves, including for sexual purposes, and see how long it takes the enraged immigrant community to storm the mansions and set fire to them, and rape and murder their wives and children."

Yep, Pagan, better policies for a better US!

What's rather tragic is that if the very bottom of white America's working class has one problem, then that is its inability to grasp that they have common cause with the poorest of the black and immigrant communities. But where education levels are significantly below average, it would appear that neither 'side' [poor whites and poor blacks and immigrants] recognise each other's plight as a common cause: poverty itself. That leads to higher than average segregation and a feeling of 'each to his own'. The black-on-white racism that you so desperately want to turn into a major issue does indeed exist mainly at the lowest rungs of society. Your solution is to pour much oil on that smoldering fire...

This is another world-beater comment that's now been saved with the rest of my collection... Even Michael Savage would blush, I feel... But not Pagan, he tells it 'like it is'...

Let it be noted that as long as your kind of thinking is around Blacks and other minorities will indeed still have much to fear from idiotic and spiteful 'little white men' and their persecution complex.

Your comment sounds like something even a Grand Dragon of the Ku Klux Klan would be hesitant to utter. But not Brave Young Pagan... There's no need for any epithets here, your comment speaks volumes.

The Sentinel said...

THR,

You keep posting these unsubstantiated stories in stark contrast to the comprehensive evidence I post.

But I will educate you a little more on the realties of your country and exactly why Pagan Temple is right, that politicians are indifferent to the effects.

But first:

"Christ you are stupid. firstly, Andrews' career was never ended. He's stil the Federal Member for Menzies."

But not the minister for Immigration, no? Or minster of anything come to that. He has been thoroughly derided as a racist and a hate monger and even though the facts are out now the mud will stick.


"it wasn't only Nixon who contradicted Andrews"

That fantastic lie you mean? The one doesn't bother you at all?


"Andrews himself was forced to concede that his claims about Africans were not based on stats at all, but on anecdotal 'feedback'"

Again, unsubstantiated but in any case I know that this anecdotal 'feedback' was from the people on the front line having to deal with it: The police, social services , etc. who know the realities better then anyone.

But in any case, as has been thoroughly proved, the stats supported him 100% anyway. It was the PC junta lie that ensured his honesty was thoroughly stamped on and so was his reputation.

That's how you thugs work: "Andrews spoke out and look what happened to him..."

I think even just two event shows the sheer and utter contempt for Australia, its people, its law, its police and it hospitality your new arrivals have:


"FOUR Sudanese nationals seriously injured two senior off-duty police officers at a Brisbane football club after having first threatened to rape their wives and children, a jury has been told.

The court was told Godfrey and Munro went to investigate and found a group of men kicking metal signs.

Ms Birkett said Godfrey and Munro asked the group to desist and move on, but were then subjected to a string of loud expletives and racial slurs.

The jury said members of the group made comments such as "you white pieces of s***", "get back on the boat" and "go back to England".

Ms Birkett said one comment heard was: "We are going to rape your children."

http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,25512398-3102,00.html



"It [police] dropped charges against men arrested at a confrontation last December in which some 100 Africans surrounded 21 police and sent one to hospital with suspected cracked ribs.

Sen-Sgt Mario Benedetti, in charge of Moonee Ponds police station, says he suspects the charges were dropped because of the alleged offenders' race. Other police involved tell me the same, adding that the charges were dropped without their knowledge or consent."

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,24672971-25717,00.html


And that last event also shows the sheer and utter contempt your own government has for their own police, their own people and the country.


"But watch out for those scary Africans under the bed, Sentinel."

Yeah, well done. Very clever. It is you who is about to discover the real joys of enrichment; I have lived with for quite some time now.

You have been thoroughly discredited on all of your absurd PC fantasy land contentions and proved to be a liar as well. I'm still waiting for your evidence to back up your bold claim that many Sudanese and Somali's are Christian, for instance.

You don't even know the realities in your own country. What use are you to anyone?

Fuckwit.

The Sentinel said...

But here is another example of why both Pagan Temple and I are right about your politicians not giving a toss about the people of Australia - just as establishment politicians everywhere couldn't care less; the global scale and synchronicity of this PC goal of mass immigration into western countries regardless of the consequences for what are, ostensibly, the people that they have a duty of care for, will be written as the greatest chapter of treason in history.

The criminal antics of another of your "humanitarian" projects, the Lebanese is legion and I think even an idiot like you would be hard pushed to deny it. So we had the excuses, pretty much the same ones we hear now for the African immigrants, they are traumatised by war , etc , as that excuses gross criminality and hostility to the very people that have taken them away from it, even if it were true

Retired Australian detective Tim Priest warned in 2004 that the Lebanese gangs, which emerged in Sydney in the 1990s – when the police were asleep – had morphed out of control. “The Lebanese groups,” he said, “ were ruthless, extremely violent, and they intimidated not only innocent witnesses, but even the police that attempted to arrest them.”

Priest describes how in 2001, in a Muslim dominated area of Sydney two policemen stopped a car containing three well-known Middle Eastern men to search for stolen property. As the police carried out their search they were physically threatened and the three men claimed they were going to track them down, kill them and then rape their girlfriends.

It didn’t end there. As the Sydney police called for backup the three men used their mobile phones to call their associates, and within minutes, 20 Middle Eastern men arrived on the scene. They punched and pushed the police and damaged state vehicles. The police retreated and the gang followed them to the police station where they intimidated staff, damaged property and held the police station hostage.

Eventually the gang left, the police licked their wounds, and not one of them took action against the Middle Eastern men. Priest says, “In the minds of the local population, the police are cowards and the message was, 'Lebanese [Muslim gangs] rule the streets.

Have a read of his account given in a speech to Quadrant; which, unsurprisingly, after the obligatory PC smear and hate campaign has been withdrawn from the public domain. You can find the transcript below, it makes for an horrofic read.

http://www.mackenzieinstitute.com/2006/crime-australia.htm

If seeing is believing, then watch this, especially after 5 mins in:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NlNdS512KV0

And read this account from one brave Aussie journalist, who again had the obligatory PC smear and hate campaign run against him too.


"Just as Goulburn jail, home to the most violent offenders, is dominated by Aborigines, Pacific Islanders and Lebanese Muslims, so is racial hate-mongering in our society disproportionately represented by these same groups, even as the ideologically tainted human rights industry obsesses about white racism."

http://www.smh.com.au/news/opinion/white-lies-about-dark-crimes/2008/04/13/1208024983371.html

Then take in the statisics already provided above that show the Lebanese are second only to the Somalis in massive, disproportionate and exponential criminal overrepresentation.

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,23342911-2862,00.html



You get a good idea that it is a very serious problem.

The Sentinel said...

But surely it was just a naive mistake? (Even though they keep making this 'naive' mistake.)

Surely the Australian government couldn't have possibly have known there would be a problem like this to afflict their own citizens but carried on regardless because they didn't give a shit?

You bet they were warned, they knew and you bet the couldn't give a shit:


"IMMIGRATION authorities warned the Fraser government in 1976 it was accepting too many Lebanese Muslim refugees without "the required qualities" for successful integration.

The Fraser cabinet was also told many of the refugees were unskilled, illiterate and had questionable character and standards of personal hygiene.

Cabinet documents released today by the National Archives under the 30-year rule reveal how Australia's decision to accept thousands of Lebanese Muslims fleeing Lebanon's 1976 civil war led to a temporary collapse of normal eligibility standards.

The emergence of the documents raises the question of whether the temporary relaxation might have contributed to contemporary racial tensions in Sydney's southwest, which exploded a year ago into race-based riots in Cronulla."

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,20996448-601,00.html


That's how much they thought about their own people.

The truth is not a part of the PC agenda; it is there to be suppressed with every Orwellian device they have.

The call of wacism is the first and last refuge of the PC scoundrel and it has been remarkably effective for a couple of generations; but as with all such devices in history, its power is waning.

Reality is your enemy and the truth is not on your side.

The Pagan Temple said...

Hey, I'm trying to heal the racial strife between poor whites and blacks, by suggesting that poor whites and poor blacks find common cause and go after their mutual common enemies-rich elitist left liberal politicians who by the way happen to be mostly white.

Leave it to a deluded leftist like the Gertrude to try to turn that around to an accusation of racism.

Of course the Gertrude probably realizes he would be one of the victims of such an assault.

And where do you get off accusing me or anybody else of racism. The first time I saw that abomination you call a blog, I didn't even realize at first it was yours, I thought it was something written by a stormfront type.

Come to think of it-I was right.

thr said...

You keep embarrassing yourself with your spitle-flecked idiocy, Sentinel.

Here's the chain of events: there was a murder of a Sudanese man by white Australians. Then Minister for Immigration, took this as an occasion to argue that Africans weren't 'integrating' into Australia, and that immigration would be cut as a result. The police then showed that Andrews was lying on 'integration', and the Department of Immigration showed that Andrews was lying when he claimed that refugee policy had anything to do with limiting Africans.

If you were running an argument that kids brought up in refugee camps before settling were having some problems, many people would probably agree with you. Instead, you're going with crackpot conspiracy theories about PC lizard men infiltrating the corridors of power, with an ingenious plan to unleash Africans on the community. Retarded and racist stuff, in other words.

Naturally, police think Africans are to blame. It doesn't mean that police are right. I live inn a neighbourhood with many Africa refugees, and most of the problems arise from white Australian drug users, not blacks. Police here (and most places) have a long istory of targeting those who look different.


But not the minister for Immigration, no? Or minster of anything come to that. He has been thoroughly derided as a racist and a hate monger and even though the facts are out now the mud will stick.


You really are ignorant. You pretend to ounderstand other people's countries, but I doubt you know your arse from your elbow. The reason Andrews is no longer a Minister for anything is that his party is out of power. He never suffered any consequence for his bungling and lies in 2007.

Given that Andrews was the HEAD of the relevant government department, your unsubstantiated claims make no sense.

No, he's not the head at all. Every government department is supposed to be at least notionally apolitical.

And quoting rightwing crackpot opinion columnists like Andrew Bolt is hardly providing 'evidence'. Do a little googling and you'll find that Bolt's tripe is refuted by data about thirty seconds afer he posts it.

Anonymous said...

the sentinel is a daft racist cunt who has to leave three comments when none would do.

oh dear.

ps: fj is also a cunt as is his bitch pagan who is scared of homosexuality byeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

The Pagan Temple said...

Daniel Hoffman Gill (aka "Anonymous")-

1. I am nobody's bitch. Somebody's bitch is somebody who "agrees" with him or her on every matter (whether said bitch in question really agrees or not). I have disagreed, and do disagree, with FJ, and for that matter Sentinel, and practically everybody on various occasions.

2. I am not afraid of homosexuality. I just am not a homosexual, I am a heterosexual who in point of fact has no problem whatsoever with grown adult men engaging in homosexual relationships in the privacy of their own home, nor for that matter do I have a problem with them publicly expressing and affirming their relationship, whether that be by marriage or by civil unions.

I just don't like nor do I agree with a lot of their political views on other matters which is irrelevant to them, nor do I like, respect, or appreciate a lot of the antics of their more radical proponents. That is where the problem and the misunderstanding probably arises.

When they act like little bitches, I call it as I see it.

Mainly, though, and most importantly, I will probably never get along with them as a whole, and that is mainly their fault-not mine. The reason for that is, I will not, ever, under any circumstances, vote for nor support in any other fashion, the political party or politicians they tend to support.

That has nothing to do with them. It's not my fault that they think everything ought to be about them, and that the whole world revolves around them.

Actually, in the grand scheme of things, they are in fact relatively unimportant to me.

That last fact is the thing they-and evidently you-need to learn to deal with.

Now, kindly do me a favor. Stop this childishness, get yourself some intense therapy, and then go get yourself a "blogger profile operation".

I think you need to do something about this "wrong blogger profile" you are stuck in.

HaHaHaHaHaHaHaHa

The Sentinel said...

THR,

And so we arrive at the familiar point in these "debates" when the PC muppet has been comprehensively smacked with the truth stick and thoroughly trounced: Empty shallow platitudes and labels.


"You keep embarrassing yourself with your spitle-flecked idiocy, Sentinel"

You have been thoroughly trounced. Every single one of your absurd contentions, as everyone can see.


"Here's the chain of events..."

Heres the reality as thoroughly proven: Mass immigration from Africa and the Middle East into Australia has already resulted in a massive and disproportionate spike in crime and will get much, much worse as the experience of every western country that has done the same shows.

One brave man spoke up about it; one cowardly woman lied about it and then the brave man and his government were gone.

But people know the truth now.


"If you were running an argument that kids brought up in refugee camps before settling were having some problems"

I see, the same tired old excuse for crime; its poverty and weffugesss!!!

I was brought up as poor as it gets in the East End of London and I served in the army for years through several war zones but I never felt compelled to rob, rape or murder anyone.

Ahh, a weffugeee camp; what a soft and fluffy cause; just like all the "asylum seekers" who come to the UK, not for the benefits but for safety, having broken the law on asylum by travelling through many safe countries to reach the UK.

What a load of crap.

When the next generation comes from these immigrants and they are still committing massively disproportionate levels of crime (as are the Lebanese and Vietnamese) you will fail over that over PC canard that it is 1) the wasicm of the terrible Australians and their police that make them do it 2) It the wasicm of the terrible Australians that ensure these people are in poverty.

Oh wait, you already have...


"Instead, you're going with crackpot conspiracy theories about PC lizard men infiltrating the corridors of power"

Again another demonstration of what a fantastic liar you are.

And you hold the already discredited conspiracy theories about Andrews.

What is a fact is that every, that is every, western countries "leaders" has felt the strange urge to flood their countries with mass immigration that has and will fundamentally change the character and demographics of that country and has resulted in massive crime increases, social tensions and multi-tier, multi-standard societies and they have done it using the same twisted and discredited arguments and lies and enforced it with same twisted and Orwellian devices.

It has not only not benefited their own people, the people they are supposed to serve but caused them immense harm and given them more opportunities to be the victims of crime.

The PC agenda.

Anyone in any doubt about the sheer scope of the problems in Australia and the complete and utter contempt just the Lebanese have for Australia, its laws, and its police need only watch this video; especially after 5 mins in; and these people are 3rd and 4th generation; not from a weffugeee camp and clearly not poor.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NlNdS512KV0


"Retarded and racist stuff, in other words."

Ahh, there it is: Wascism.

I'm a wascly wacist for daring to prove you wrong and post the real statistics of African and immigrants crime.

That's what it is: The facts are wasict too. and the truth is an absolute fascist!!!

You fuckwits make me laugh!!!

The Sentinel said...

"Naturally, police think Africans are to blame."

Naturally, that's because they are. And they have to deal with it, you fuckwit.


"It doesn't mean that police are right"

But they are right, you fuckwit, as the crime statistics clearly show.


"I live inn a neighbourhood with many Africa refugees, and most of the problems arise from white Australian drug users, not blacks"

You have been proven to be the most casual of liars who makes up fantastic stories. Your word is not worth a toss.

And the evidence shows the truth is the complete opposite to what you say.


"You really are ignorant"

Amazing. What front, when you have been publicly exposed as an ignorant lying fool and every one of your absurd contentions has been thoroughly trounced by the truth.


"You pretend to understand other people's countries"

I love how you try to invoke nationalism now!!!

What makes you think its "your" country all of a sudden? Clearly you think that the moment anyone sets foot in Australia they are as Australian as you. And I have a residents visa, free to come, stay and go as often as I like. By your yardstick, I'm as Australian as you. Strewth.Shrimp on the barbie. Fuck me drunk. Fair go.

That and the fact that you clearly haven't got the first idea of the reality of what is going on in your country as thoroughly proved. Either that are you are a twisted liar. And, well, that's been proved too....


"The reason Andrews is no longer a Minister for anything is that his party is out of power. He never suffered any consequence for his bungling and lies in 2007."

You really are just a lying fuckwit aint ya?!!

Here it is in your own words:

"If you'd actually done your research properly, you'd know a little bit about the context of this. Andrews did, in fact, announce a reduction on the intake of African refugees in 2007. This was during an election campaign. Andrews is from the Liberal party (Australia's conservatives) and they'd won previously on race-baiting...The race-baiting tactics also backfired more generally, as the Liberal Party suffered a significant swing against it, and lost power."

You fuckwit.


"And quoting rightwing crackpot opinion columnists like Andrew Bolt is hardly providing 'evidence'."

Actually, that is just one piece of evidence posted. But of course Bolt has to be a "rightwing crackpot" doesn't he? After all he dares to speak out against the PC lies!!!

Never mind that for over a year Bolt was one of those who was bashing Andrews and painting him as a hate monger on the basis of Nixon's lies, until he looked into it and found the reality that is.

But don't let the truth get in the way of a good smear, in classic PC style.



"Do a little googling and you'll find that Bolt's tripe is refuted by data about thirty seconds afer he posts it."

Go on you lying gobshite, prove it. Dont tell us about it, do it.

And then prove that the all the other evidence is wrong too.

Fuckwit.

The Sentinel said...

"anonymous"

Or better known as Danielle Gilly-Manhoff, any last little shred of credibilty you mave had left has been completely shattered by your bizarre cowardice. And that is in the eyes of everyone - that is any normal honest person - here.

I'm really glad you didn't have the balls to turn up that day, hiding away like a little girl instead; I really don't suffer fools lightly and I think it would have been a tragic mistake for both us. But more so for you.

THR, as I said you are in real good company here, this one loves to fantasies about incest too; and has a good line in insulting people's dead mothers and offering to rape people too.

You will be very happy together.

Two fuckwits in a pod.

Gert said...

Pagan:

You call for the deliberate spreading of lies by poor whites about the 'liberal elites' with regards to them allegedly abusing "kidnapped immigrant women working as slaves, including for sexual purposes" in order to invoke a revolt by said immigrants and you are surprised this is construed as racist. What exactly do you think would happen to the 'immigrant insurgents'? Let me make it multiple choice:

a. The authorities would have no choice to strongly clamp down on these immigrants, a reaction that might be much desired among the racist portion of poor and disillusioned whites.
b. Said immigrants would eventually come to their senses and embrace the 'non-elitist' GOP.
c. All involved end up singing Kumbaya around the campfire.

In the same way you condemn an entire group (homosexuals) as being "spiteful". When someone protests that you conclude the protester must be gay.

You're either obtuse beyond help or a seriously twisted macaroon.

The Pagan Temple said...

Liberal politicians and elitists have been lying for decades, both to poor whites and to poor blacks, as well as to immigrants of all colors. Turn about is fair play in my opinion. All's fair as they say.

In other words, poor blacks and immigrants are not the natural enemies of poor whites.

The oppressors of them all are the enemies of them all. That is for the most part white liberal elitist politicians. I wouldn't feel a bit bad about turning the tables on them, and for that matter, I am not so sure spreading such tales would be tantamount to "lying". If it is-who gives a rats ass?

And like I said-homosexuals and their problems are of very minor concern to me at best. Liberal gay activists are the ones who seem to get their panties in a twist when somebody disagrees with them on anything, including by the way concerning issues that have nothing to do with gay matters.

It might come as a shock to you, but there are conservative gays in America who do vote Republican. They are called Log Cabin Republicans. I bet you didn't know that, did you? Oh, I'm sure you would have some insulting name for them, something along the lines of "Uncle Fag" or "Uncle Queer" or something equally obnoxious and insulting. That's your style, isn't it Gertrude? After all, in your would-be elitist, arrogant opinion, these gay folks are full of self-loathing and are "voting against their own best interests".

There is just no way any self-respecting gay person could possibly agree with any aspect of conservative politics or conservative policy positions, is there?

You're just too damn much. I don't think you might be a closet gay or openly gay just because you believe in gay rights and support gay marriage, and choose to argue the point with those who disagree with you.

I think you are gay because everybody who disagrees with you is an "idiot", a "moron", an "imbecile", etc.

That is the reason, and it's the only reason, that causes me to think you probably have an asshole the size of a grapefruit.

You remind me of these god damned people on these call-in shows from time to time that always start every point they make with "I am (or am not) a Democrat", or "Republican" or "conservative" or "liberal", and then go on to say "but I agree (or disagree) with" this-that-and the other. You pretty much know before ten seconds have passed that they are the exact opposite of what they are trying to portray themselves as, as though it proves some kind of damn point.

Nobody gives a shit if you are gay or not. That's between you and your taste buds. The point is, portraying yourself as straight if you are gay doesn't give your argument the slightest more gravitas.

Put another way, I put you pretty much on the same level as Perez Hilton. It doesn't matter to me that he's gay, what matters to me is that he's an obnoxious asshole.

Authority1 said...

is it me or is a bit pointless to have a comment moderation policy and then not use it?

Authority1 said...

oh and sentinel is still a racist fucking idiot who is scared of anything he doesn't understand and is a coward cunt.

The Sentinel said...

Hoffman-Gill,

You have conclusively proved what we all already knew: You are just a troll. A foul mouthed, incest and rape obsessed troll with no opinion of your own, no interest in debate and no backbone, spine or courage.

You are a disgrace, with the mindset of a pedophile.

The Sentinel said...

hoffman-gil,

The sheer depth of your ingrained and habitual dishonesty can be garnered straight away by the header of you blog claiming that you are the "Time Newspaper 2007 Daimond Blogger" when the truth is you didn't win any such award, or even come close to it.

The truth is your webrag was only mentioned by the Times Newspaper at the very end of a very long list of blogs and was described as "Less worthy" then the other blogs in that very long list.

http://technology.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/tech_and_web/the_web/article1358302.ece

You lying fuckwit.

Gert said...

Pagan:

"It might come as a shock to you, but there are conservative gays in America who do vote Republican. They are called Log Cabin Republicans. I bet you didn't know that, did you?"

Actually, I can do better than that: I know some US Conservative gays who were against the war in Iraq. And some of them were black too!

As regards the 'white Liberal elites', obviously there are no Republican/Conservative elites, no dynasty-like Right-side powerhouses. No, 'elitism' is the sole prerogative of the 'fascist-socialist' ('politically correct') US left.

And I'm a unicorn...

Regards your assertion that Anonymous = Daniel, it's rather typical of you (and Sent): you have no proof whatsoever, just a self-serving hunch. So much for being evidence-based...

The Sentinel said...

Yet again Gert you contribute nothing to the debate; nothing at all, just offering more pointless, irrelevent and off-topic rubbish.

And yet again Gert you comment on things you know nothing about; we know its hoffman-gill not only because of the things he is saying but the language used like his favourite word - "cunt"

http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&q=cunt+site:http://danielhg.blogspot.com/&start=0&sa=N


And especially "daft racist" - it is one of his favourtie lablels and one he has used dozens of times before:

http://danielhg.blogspot.com/search/label/daft%20racist


As I said, THR is in real good company here as you are just another fuckwit with the mindset of a pedophile that likes to publicly fantasise about incest and child sexual molestation, along with your buddy hoffman-gil and others.

Seeing as you haven't got a clue on this issue as you pretty much don't with anything else you come out with, why not stick to what you do best by making bizarre sexual racist comments on "Jewish tits" and using Nazi terminology calling Israelis - Jews - the new "herrenvolk" and generally pissing off people - socialists in the main - on blogs who think you are a " far-right nutter", a "Jew obsessed crank" and "nasty racist filth."

THR said...

Visa or not, you don't understand the first thing about Australia, Sentinel, nor the first thing about African refugees. Melbourne's major problems with crime in recent years (undwerworld killings, CBD violence) have had nothing to do with Africans. And Kevin Andrews was found to have lied by 2 independent sources, yet you still shamelessly and dishonestly cite him as an authority. You claim that there is a vast 'PC' conspiracy to import Afrian criminals into Australia. How is this so? Are these millionaire refugees bribing cops and politicians after they get off the leaky boats?

But that's the style of 'argument' we've come to expect from you.

Shorter Sentinel: 'dribble, dribble, dribble, Africans!, dribble paedophila!, dribble, dribble'.

The Sentinel said...

THR,

Everything you have claimed - that is everything - has been comprehensively demolished by independent evidence in the posts above.

Typically, as a fanatic, you refuse to recognize that you and your absurd contentions have been thoroughly trounced and continue to have the last-word-but-no-evidence-syndrome.

In response to having your main contention completely exposed for the lie it is and was, you then clamed that “do a little googling and you'll find that Bolt's tripe is refuted by data about thirty seconds afer he posts it” and so I challenged you to do it and show us the results instead of just talking about it; of course you couldn’t because no such credible and independent “data” exists; quite obvious really, when you consider that he was merely quoting the official statistics.

You are quite obviously just a fanatic; a politically motivated liar of the worst kind.

And yet again, you are proven to be a casual liar as in reality you don’t know the first thing about what I know about Australia, where I have been or even how long I lived there. It suits you to make something up about it and so you do, regardless of any foundation im reality.

That is your, and the whole PC approach to the world.

That is why it is nothing more then a house of cards. It doesn't survive the facts, and the truth.

I hardly need to prove the PC agenda when it is in plain sight: It is a fact is that every, that is every, western countries "leaders" has felt the strange urge to flood their countries with mass immigration that has and will fundamentally change the character and demographics of that country and has resulted in massive crime increases, social tensions and multi-tier, multi-standard societies and they have done it using the same twisted and discredited arguments and lies and enforced it with same twisted and Orwellian devices.

It has not only not benefited their own people, the people they are supposed to serve but caused them immense harm and given them more opportunities to be the victims of crime, for one.

Let’s take rape for example, and let’s take Sweden for instance; once a very safe, progressive liberal democracy with the most sexually liberated people on the planet.

Now, 20 years on after mass immigration they have a huge problem with crime and the biggest rape problem in Europe; in fact an EU report released today reveals that Sweden has twice as many rapes as its nearest contender, the UK.

http://www.thelocal.se/19102/


Of course, what it doesn't tell you is the reality of these figures, which is that the statistics proved that a rapist was four times more likely to have been born abroad – with Algeria, Libya, Morocco and Tunisia dominating the group of rape suspects and also that non-whites were responsible for 25% of all crime in Sweden

http://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/article327666.ab

http://www.thelocal.se/2683/20051214/


In fact, since Sweden started its mass immigration programme, the cases of rape have quadrupled and the cases of the RAPE OF CHILDREN – that is under 15 year olds – is SIX– 6 – times higher, then it was 20 years ago.

http://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/article326023.ab


And given that the Swedish "leaders" know why what do you think the response is: Yip, they want to import MORE.

The fantastic absurdity of the PC mindset and the acknowledgment of where it will all lead can be gathered by the statement of Jens Orback, the then Swedish Immigration Minster:


“We must be open and tolerant towards Islam and Muslims because when we become a minority, they will be so towards us.”

http://www.globalpolitician.com/23342-sweden

The Sentinel said...

Again, if seeing is believing, you can watch the fall of the rule of law and the desperation of the Swedish police here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=diw5SneythM

Independent sociology research for a thesis found this on the problem of ethnic, primarily Muslim crime and criminal gangs in Sweden:


"The wave of robberies the city of Malmö has witnessed during this past year is part of a “war against the Swedes.” This is the explanation given by young robbers from immigrant backgrounds when questioned about why they only rob native Swedes, in interviews with Petra Åkesson for her thesis in sociology. “I read a report about young robbers in Stockholm and Malmö and wanted to know why they rob other youths. It usually does not involve a lot of money,” she says. She interviewed boys between 15 and 17 years old, both individually and in groups.

Almost 90% of all robberies reported to the police were committed by gangs, not individuals. “When we are in the city and robbing we are waging a war, waging a war against the Swedes.” This argument was repeated several times. “Power for me means that the Swedes shall look at me, lie down on the ground and kiss my feet.” The boys explain, laughingly, that “there is a thrilling sensation in your body when you’re robbing, you feel satisfied and happy, it feels as if you’ve succeeded, it simply feels good.” “It’s so easy to rob Swedes, so easy.” “We rob every single day, as often as we want to, whenever we want to.” The immigrant youth regard the Swedes as stupid and cowardly: “The Swedes don’t do anything, they just give us the stuff. They’re so wimpy.”…

http://www.dn.se/nyheter/sverige/invandrare-krigar-mot-svenskar-med-ran-1.730573


Little wonder as these immigrants arrive in record numbers, the Swedes leave in record numbers:

“Immigration to Sweden in 2006 reached its highest level since records began. At the same time emigration also soared to a level not seen in over 100 years, according to official figures published by Statistics Sweden.”

http://www.thelocal.se/article.php?ID=6412


But is the rape situation in Sweden just some tragic but freakish fluke?

Hardly, it was also revealed today by the Norwegian police that EVERY – yes that is EVERY - case of aggravated sexual assault ending in rape in the capital Oslo over the past three years was committed by immigrants – primarily Africans and Kurds.

They said: “The cases of aggravated sexual assaults all have one thing in common, namely the use of gross violence.”

http://www.norwaypost.no/content/view/21900/26/

And we already know that two out of three people charged with all rapes in Oslo are immigrants.

http://www.aftenposten.no/english/local/article190268.ece


So is Norway going to act to protect its own people from this completely unnecessary and preventable criminal savagery? Of course not. The mass immigration continues unhindered.

As it does in Denmark where non-whites (mostly Muslims) committed 68% of all rapes, and it was revealed that non-whites were over-represented in all crime by an average of 46% and in Copenhagen 47.5% of prisoners on remand for serious crimes were non-white.

http://www.cphpost.dk/news/1-latest-news/27877.html

http://www.cphpost.dk/news/1-latest-news/28210.html


So when the statistic already show that the new immigrants (primarily Africans) are at least 8 times disproportionately over represented in crime in Australia (and some figures show 20 times) and it is also the experience of every western country that has carried out this mass immigration, what kind of fantasy fuckwit would even try and deny the facts, the evidence and the truth of what is happening and where it will lead? Clearly, you for one. And why? What is that drives this insanity?

The Sentinel said...

I’ll give just two more example of just how Australia and its emerging problems with mass immigration are directly linked to the experience of every other country that has walked the same path.

Watch the video I had linked to above and the complete and utter contempt these 3rd and 4th generation immigrants have for Australia, its people, its laws and its police and then watch this video taken in the UK a couple of days ago also of 2nd, 3rd and 4th generation immigrants, the utter contempt they have for Britain, its people, its laws and its police. And the funniest part of it is, in that last video from the UK, the police had actually been deployed to PROTECT these people from what turned out to be a mythical situation, but instead these people attack them.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6JIQBllf1pk&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NlNdS512KV0


And here is the experience of some unwanted residents in the same town; unwanted by Muslims that is. Black and white, mostly old and resident for over 40 years. One 74 year old black woman has had bricks and a beer keg thrown through her window and lives with a bank of CCTV cameras, and one old white couple live with their entire house boarded up they are so afraid of the sustained campagin of violence.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ilKIeag1HUc&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AAi78m0pd44&feature=related


Ethnic cleansing in the UK, coming to a town near you soon.

Gert said...

Sent:

"Yet again Gert you contribute nothing to the debate; nothing at all, just offering more pointless, irrelevent and off-topic rubbish."

As opposed to you, whose 'contributions' here get rammed down everyone's throat, ad nauseam and ad infinitum (AND ad hominem).

"You are quite obviously just a fanatic; a politically motivated liar of the worst kind."

As opposed to you, purer than the driven snow. You've completely hijacked this thread in as off topic a manner as possible, spending by now hours and G-d only knows how many points of blood pressure on it. I can practically feel your rage through my DSL cable, but you're not a fanatic, oh no.

We've heard your message loud and clear: you're 'not racist', just an 'objective', hard-working man and we're all 'PC fascist liars'. Now kindly move on. Accept that not everyone will believe you.

You're Don Quixote incarnate; Pagan can be your Sancho Panza.

Now please (pu-leaeaease?) reopen your own blog and start your ranting and railing from a soap box there. Where no one can hear it.

We've had enough. We want this blog back.

The Sentinel said...

And again Gertrude, not a single relevant comment, just more reams of argumentum ad hominem, lies and evasions.


“As opposed to you, whose 'contributions' here get rammed down everyone's throat, adnauseam and ad infinitum (AND ad hominem)…you've completely hijacked this thread in as off topic a manner as possible”

Again, away from your lies here are the facts and the truth all here for everyone one to see:


1) You started the argumentum ad hominem; I repeatedly asked you to stop; you didn’t so I showed how YOU are viewed by many: As a troll; as "a crank"; as An “anti-Semite”, as “a racist piece of filth”, as a “far right nutter”, and a sexual deviant. I pointed this out because it seems common consensus that you are a troll of the worst kind.


2) You took this thread here, not me. You completely hijacked it with your incessant off topic argumentum ad hominem, which again, I repeatedly asked you to stop. But like a troll, you carried on with it.


“ get rammed down everyone's throat”

What a fantastic liar you are. You bring it to this point off topic and this level of politeness and then blame me.

As for being “rammed down your throat” – simple, don’t read it. No ramming involved.

All legitimate responses to accusations and rubbish.


“spending by now hours and G-d only knows how many points of blood pressure on it”

About 15 mins actually, and no rise in pressure.

All true though isn’t it? But again, that’s not the issue – the issue is I said and it proved it and you can’t stand the truth in the way of your PC fantasy.


“I can practically feel your rage through my DSL cable, but you're not a fanatic, oh no”

Really? In the same way that you could feel through your DSL cable that I had been sexually abused as a child?



“We've heard your message loud and clear: you're 'not racist', just an 'objective', hard-working man and we're all 'PC fascist liars'.”


Ah, invoking “we”? You attempting to fit in again? Rehabilitate your obvious problems with your online conduct and contradictions in your claims about your stance on racism, anti-Semitism and assorted other pieces?


“Now kindly move on”

You brought it here Gertrude; if you had moved when asked it wouldn’t be here.


“Accept that not everyone will believe you.”

Accept that not everyone will believe the evidence when it is as clear as day and accept that I have the right to respond to claims that I am dishonest / erroneous / a product of incest.


“Now please (pu-leaeaease?) reopen your own blog and start your ranting and railing from a soap box there.”

And why don’t you do the same?



“We've had enough. We want this blog back.”

What a pitiful, pathetic claim. Again invoking some sort of non-existant moral authority.

You are a troll Gert, and you introduced the argumentum ad hominem and off topic element into this thread.

YOU brought it here.

You are not in the slightest bit bothered about the conduct of THR making disgusting claims of incest and the nastiest of insults nor the conduct of hoffman-gil bizarre posting insults under different ID’s liberally peppered with the most serious of profanity cusses – cunt – are you?

Not even slightly.

All you are bothered about reasoned, evidenced, civil responses to points raised. You know, what is called a debate. And that is what you want to stop and tried to stop with your pure argumentum ad hominem and off topic goading.

Why not stick to what you do best by making bizarre sexual racist comments on "Jewish tits" and using Nazi terminology calling Israelis - Jews - the new "herrenvolk" and generally pissing off people - socialists in the main - on blogs who think you are a " far-right nutter", a "Jew obsessed crank" and "nasty racist filth."

THR said...

The serial dribbler seems to have escaped from his straightjacket long enough to get back on the computer. Here he is, bravely riding to the rescue of fair maidens Andrews and Bolt!

Andrew was found to have lied by two independent government agencies on the matter of African 'integration'. He was also caught out persecuting an innocent man with terrorism laws. So can somebody tell The Senile that that argument is finished.

As for refutations of Bolt - he's the Australian equivalent of Ann Coulter, so there's lots out there smacking him down. Here's a sample:

This is from a statistician that proves Bolt is talking bullshit:

http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollytics/2008/11/22/of-race-and-crime-and-andrew-bolt/

There's 115 Somalian offenders, mostly young, and mostly committing minor crimes. Not quite enough to justify the brown underpants The Senile is wearing.

Bolt caught out lying to villif African refugees:
http://blairboltwatch.wordpress.com/2008/12/22/still-a-dickhead/

In an academic paper, the authors discuss how Bolt denied the very existence of racism in his craven attempts to defend Andrews:

http://www.acrawsa.org.au/ejournalFiles/Volume%204,%20Number%201,%202008/ClemenceDue.pdf

As for your claims of being an expert on all things Australian - your 'arguments' here suggest you must have spent your time cowerinig under a rock, as you obviously know SFA about contemporary Australia. As pointed out above, the crimes that are actually concerning people involve underworld killings, bikie gangs, and drunken bashings in the city. Almost all of these involve guys born in Australia, and have nothing to do with Africans, refugees or otherwise.

So the stats are against you, and your small-minded heroes have been found time and again to be liars. But no wonder you're so afwaid of the Afwicans. If you actually went to that continent, an oafish pigfucker like yourself would be made to sleep in the barn with the village donkey.

Gert said...

THR:

Thanks for the information on Bolt and Andrews, it seems every country has its nutters (or should we say 'niche politicians specialising in racist twaddle'?), unsurprisingly Australia seems to have its fair share.

"As for your claims of being an expert on all things Australian - your 'arguments' here suggest you must have spent your time cowerinig under a rock, as you obviously know SFA about contemporary Australia."

Just don't go asking him about the Aborigines, he's a real expert on that! No kiddin'!

THR said...

Just don't go asking him about the Aborigines, he's a real expert on that! No kiddin'!

I could imagine. He probably wants to deport them too.

The Sentinel said...

THR,

I have told you many times that the truth is not on your side – that reality is your enemy. And so it proves to be the case again.

Once again you prove nothing other then what a clearly contorted politically motivated liar you are, and of course provide yet more lashings of gratuitous argumentum ad hominem this time, but instead of incest though you bring a new low of bestiality into the thread. Well done.

After being challenged several times to back up your claims - with independent credible evidence - that the crime figures and the contentions laid out are lies, and again what do you produce? Yip, two blogs. That was the best all of your googling could come up with.

Blogs are neither independent nor credible sources, but even with this you excel yourself, because the first one you link to you obviously didn’t read, because not only does the author CONFIRM the veracity of the figures but also goes on to say that Somalian’s have “a large problem” with crime, that the disproportionate Somalian crime rate is a “complete failure of the migrant resettlement...” also that the disproportionate Somalian crime figures were “extraordinary numbers by any yardstick” and “point to… dysfunction within the community itself” and that “The simplest answer is simply to stop migration from Somalia at its source and substitute it for other African groups.”

And yet you use that blog as a counter?!! Remarkable. Truly.

As for your claims that “Andrew was found to have lied by two independent government agencies on the matter of African 'integration” and “the race-baiting tactics also backfired more generally, as the Liberal Party suffered a significant swing against it” – you are obviously painting Andrews as a racist hate mongering liar – the truth is the complete opposite; as expressed by an African professor who the President of the African community in Western Australia:


“THE debate on the reduction in African refugees for this financial year, which was triggered by Immigration Minister Kevin Andrews last week, has focused too much on race. As an African, I was surprised by the minister's choice of words, but I see no evidence of racism in his explanation.

The decision to reduce the African refugee intake had been taken earlier in the year. Indeed, there was no controversy when it became public in March that of the 13,000 refugees expected in 2007-08, 30 per cent would come from Africa, 35 per cent from the Middle East and 35 per cent from Asia…

When I was president of the African community in Western Australia a few years ago, I often wondered whether we were doing the right thing by bringing people here from war-torn societies and failing to provide the resources necessary to help them integrate into the wider society.”

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,22564242-7583,00.html


“As for your claims of being an expert on all things Australian”

I have never made any such claim. You are the one making claims about my knowledge of Australia without any foundation in reality.

The Sentinel said...

“As pointed out above, the crimes that are actually concerning people involve underworld killings, bikie gangs, and drunken bashings in the city. Almost all of these involve guys born in Australia, and have nothing to do with Africans, refugees or otherwise.”

And course this is not even remotely true as already proven with official police statistics, immigrants - with Somalian’s at the top of the list - are responsible for a hugely disproportionate impact on all crimes.


"PEOPLE born overseas committed one in seven of crimes in Victoria last financial year, including a quarter of rapes and one in five murders.

Exclusive police statistics also show immigrants were behind a quarter of robberies, a fifth of sex assaults, abductions and kidnappings, and 3792 assaults...

The anatomy of crime in Victoria, obtained by the Sunday Herald Sun, shows those born in Somalia, Lebanon and New Zealand had the highest crime-per-population rates in Victoria.

They are followed by Turkish, Vietnamese and then Australian-born criminals."

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,23342911-2862,00.html


But as far as bashings go, this completely unprovoked one - almost certainly racially motivated - takes some beating (no pun intended):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_dIkf0k747c&feature=related


“So the stats are against you”

Quite obviously not. Not even by your own blog-come-source link.

And on top of the already proven statistics, you have this:


““IMMIGRANTS may have to wait a year to get a taxi licence because almost all of the suspects in 24 reported driver sex assaults since June were newcomers to Australia.

The Taxi Council of SA also wants to educate immigrant applicants about "the Australian way of life" before they get behind the wheel, amid fears that cultural differences are linked to the problem…

"We are talking to multicultural organisations . . . so we can get better information to (drivers). They have to be aware of the Australian way of life," he said.”

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,21114425-421,00.html

The Sentinel said...

And even though the Australian authorities are trying hard to contain the realities of PC by trying to prevent specific statistics about the Sudanese crime rate, the police are so desperate we have this:


"POLICE are advising the Immigration Department for the first time about how and where to settle troubled African refugees.

Senior Victorian police have urged the department to settle Sudanese families in country towns such as Mildura and Sale, away from suburban Melbourne where young African men are being caught up in street crime...

The Australian understands that police first appealed to immigration officials last year following a spike in criminal activity among young Sudanese men, while Chief Commissioner Christine Nixon was attempting to play down the problem...

Victoria Police's multicultural liaison officer, Joseph Herrech said helping Sudanese refugees to settle in Melbourne was a challenge for immigration officials and police.

He said grouping the Sudanese together at times led to crime-related problems...

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,23427313-421,00.html


And anecdotally we can see the kind of crimes taking place, the ones that really concern people:


"FOUR Sudanese nationals seriously injured two senior off-duty police officers at a Brisbane football club after having first threatened to rape their wives and children, a jury has been told.

The court was told Godfrey and Munro went to investigate and found a group of men kicking metal signs.

Ms Birkett said Godfrey and Munro asked the group to desist and move on, but were then subjected to a string of loud expletives and racial slurs.

The jury said members of the group made comments such as "you white pieces of s***", "get back on the boat" and "go back to England".

Ms Birkett said one comment heard was: "We are going to rape your children."

http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,25512398-3102,00.html


"It [police] dropped charges against men arrested at a confrontation last December in which some 100 Africans surrounded 21 police and sent one to hospital with suspected cracked ribs.

Sen-Sgt Mario Benedetti, in charge of Moonee Ponds police station, says he suspects the charges were dropped because of the alleged offenders' race. Other police involved tell me the same, adding that the charges were dropped without their knowledge or consent."

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,24672971-25717,00.html


“If you actually went to that continent”

I’ve been many times; including a six month operational tour in Rwanda in ’94 attached to the UN.


“an oafish pigfucker.”

From incest to bestiality.

You are a credit to socialism.

The Sentinel said...

Gert,

And there you are again, like the coat-tailing troll you are.

Again nothing relevant, nothing to add at all, just fiendish glee in yet more depravity of bestiality on top of incest and extreme profanity, and a thanks for information from two poxy blogs – after I have posted at least 30 pieces of independent evidence - one of which supports Bolt, Andrews and the truth in any case.

Don’t go asking Gert about “Jewish tits” either or Nazi themed insults towards Jews - he's a real expert on that! No kiddin'!

Gert said...

Sent:

"[...] just fiendish glee in yet more depravity of bestiality on top of incest and extreme profanity, [...]"

Depravity of bestiality??? Where? You're nuts.

You've said your piece, Sentinel. You've had your 'right to reply'. Amply. You've given as good as you've gotten on the ad hom side. Amply.

Bottom line remains: we don't believe in your racist horseshit. Get used to it. Get over it. Don't get mad and don't try to get even (you've already had your chance. Amply).

Believe you've come out of this victoriously, prick a medal on your own chest and pat your own back, whatever makes you happy.

But leave it... Enough is enough. Honestly...

The Sentinel said...

Gertrude,

Jesus Christ on a bike you are back again, trolling away without any relevant addition to the theme of debate that you brought the thread around to.

“Depravity of bestiality??? Where? You're nuts.”

Here:

“If you actually went to that continent, an oafish pigfucker like yourself would be made to sleep in the barn with the village donkey.”

Are you nuts? Or just a selective lying troll?


“You've said your piece, Sentinel. You've had your 'right to reply'. Amply.”

Who do you think you are? Really? I couldn’t give a toss what you think – you are just an incest fantasizing troll who only indulges in off topic sniping and argumentum ad honimen in an attempt to shut down any debate his fascist mind cannot handle.

You haven’t had one on-topic post in this thread.


“You've given as good as you've gotten on the ad hom side. Amply.”

After repeatedly asking you to stop your trolling, I responded with what others thought of you and how you are regarded online. Amply.

Not quite the same.


“Bottom line remains: we don't believe in your racist horseshit.Get used to it. Get over it. Don't get mad and don't try to get even (you've already had your chance. Amply).”

Ah, its “we” again.

The three incest and sexual abuse fantasying amigos – one of whom cannot even post under his real ID.

And the truth is “racist” again!!!

That’s rich coming from someone who is widely by considered to be a "far-right nutter", a "Jew obsessed crank" and "nasty racist filth."

THR’s contentions and your contentions have been smashed time and time again with independent and credible evidence.

Facts. The truth.

And, amazingly his own sources.

One blog confirms Bolt and his figures were right but disagrees about the direction, the other plays semantic games about whether an African refugee who, in a frenzy, killed his wife by repeatedly stabbing in the head and chest should actually be called a murderer after being granted a taxi license and the third piece of pish comes from a PC lunatic fringe who state: “ACRAWSA is a growing social and cultural network of researchers who recognise that whiteness operates through institutions, ideology and identity formation.”

Pathetic. Laughable. Insane.

If someone keeps putting up the strawmen, I’ll keep knocking them down.


“Believe you've come out of this victoriously, prick a medal on your own chest and pat your own back, whatever makes you happy.”

Look you troll, you are not even in this debate; you have never been in this debate – period. The only contribution you have made is bringing it around to this subject and down to this level of incivility.

As much as THR is going full guns with his argumentum ad honimen filth, at least he is trying to prove his contention; actually trying to defend his position; actually in some kind of debate, albeit with buckets of filth.

You are just trolling, pure and simple.


“But leave it... Enough is enough. Honestly...”

Like I said, who do you think you are? You are less then a pimple on pigs arse to me.

The Pagan Temple said...

Sentinel-

"one of whom cannot even post under his real ID."

Which I might add is precisely how he is getting around the comment moderation policy he himself suggested and in fact insisted on for this blog.

As for these other two, you have thoroughly destroyed them. Were this going on in real life, face-to-face, you would probably be accused of the on-going mutilation of these two old stinking corpses by now.

Maybe we should work on a different project. Let's see if we can work out something whereby some of these immigrant folk from these high crime areas are given some kind of stipend to where they can move into Gert's neighborhood. I'm sure his wife and daughter would love a chance to get to know some of these kindly people from a different cultural background.

That's what these asshats insist on for the rest of us "poor white trash", so why the hell not? Let's move them into some of the more upscale middle class and upper middle class, and upper class neighborhoods, and see how well it goes over when a crime perpetrated on the good elitist white liberal folk are explained away as due to their own prejudice and bigotry.

Isn't that the way it should be? If you insist on allowing specific groups of people into your country, then the first place that should be made to accommodate them is your own neighborhood, not some other neighborhood that happens to be a respectable and safe distance away from your own.

Gert said...

Sent:

an oafish pigfucker

An insult, no more. Trust you to take it literally...

an attempt to shut down any debate his fascist mind cannot handle.

You've been ranting for hours now. Enough is enough. We've all heard you loud and clear. We're not deaf. But we don't HAVE TO believe you. We don't.

And the truth is “racist” again!!!

The truth isn't but you are. To an amazing degree.

who is widely by considered to be a "far-right nutter", a "Jew obsessed crank" and "nasty racist filth."

One blogger, Sent: Modernityblog. Period.

and down to this level of incivility.

There is nothing 'civil' about you in this 'debate'. You've far exceeded the amount of ad hom here used against yourself. Pot and kettle.

You are just trolling, pure and simple.

I've told you why I don't believe you and why. I'm not gonna repeat that.

It's time to call it a day, Sent.

The Sentinel said...

Pagan Temple,

You are spot on, and of course the location Gertrude has chosen to build his nest is as far removed from the realties of rampant crime that his twisted religion brings to so many others.

He chooses to live in this town:

“BRIDLINGTON:

Population: 35,000

Location: On the east coast north of Hull.

Ethnic-minority population: Too small to be significant.

Sources of communal tension: Conflicts between locals and incomers from Hull. 'Hull people are very odd,' said one Hullophobic council officer.

Number of gay clubs: Nil. But there is a flourishing Bridlington Gay Association which meets in council premises. A local preacher was at the forefront of the recent campaign to persuade the Methodists to ordain gays.

Number of rapes and racially motivated attacks in past year: Nil.”


But of course, that didn’t stop yet another PC loony coming up with this though to stop a conference from being held there:


“Ms Davies said there had been a case of racist abuse at a previous Napo conference in Bridlington, although she could not remember the details. Black members would inevitably feel threatened in a 'white' seaside resort, she added. Homosexuals would be frightened of 'displaying gay affection in the streets'.”

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/bridlington-could-blacks-and-gays-cope-union-members-mutiny-over-a-conference-venue-saying-the-resort-is-racist-and-sexist-nick-cohen-reports-1484314.html


There are the kinds of nutters behind the ideas that we, in the real world, have to live with.

Hoffman-gils tactics and bizarre behavior is yet another symptom of these loonies, their morals, their integrity and their bearing in life.

The Sentinel said...

Gert,

“An insult, no more. Trust you to take it literally...”

An insult involving bestiality, as I said, when you called me a nut on top of it, already on top one (& countless others of varying types) involving incest. Do you really not see any problem with that?


“You've been ranting for hours now. Enough is enough. We've all heard you loud and clear. We're not deaf. But we don't HAVE TO believe you. We don't.”

I’ve been refuting the rubbish produced in an online debate; rubbish that has been directed at me personally, calling me dishonest / erroneous / a product of incest / involved in bestiality and I will keep refuting that rubbish with more and more evidence.

You don’t have to believe the irrefutable factual evidence presented to you, no, but don’t tell me I’m a liar, a racist or wrong in presenting it.


“The truth isn't but you are. To an amazing degree.”

And the truth is, as I have said all along that immigrants commit the majority of rapes in Scandinavia, including all serious aggravated sexual assaults with rape in Oslo, that as a result Sweden’s rape rate has gone through the roof; that immigrants commit the majority of the serious crimes in the UK and the immigrants commit a hugely disproportionate amount of crime in Australia, amongst many, many other facts.

That is the truth backed up by irrefutable evidence. That means that the truth is racist. If I had made those facts up then maybe I could see your point; but because I’m not prepared to listen to complete and utter bullshit in relation to it, and present facts, I can’t.

And clearly you are a hypocritical racist anti-Semite, and to quite some degree. Who in their right mind would add the racial taunt of “Jewish” in front of a sexual taunt about “tits”? What difference would it make about the ethnicity of the owner of these “tits”? Who would use Nazi terminology to refer to the state born out of the holocaust and its people? You have been picked up on that and more by dozens and thoroughly reviled for it.


“One blogger, Sent: Modernityblog. Period.”

Actually Gert, as you well know it is dozens. Just on two threads I glanced at I estimate over 20 people calling you out on your rampant anti-Semitism and sexual taunts and those links are above. I glanced at others and saw more, so who knows just how many you have grossly offended?


“There is nothing 'civil' about you in this 'debate'. You've far exceeded the amount of ad hom here used against yourself. Pot and kettle.”

All you have gotten out of me is the term “fuckwit” – more then restrained considering the level of depraved sexual abuse and the rest – I asked time and again for you to stop your trolling and argumentum ad honimen and off-topic goading but you wouldn’t, so I have demonstrated that you are widely reviled as a crank, an anti-Semite and a sexual deviant on the net.

Not the same at all.

You brought it here, its all your doing.

And now when you and your perverse buddy have been thoroughly trounced and exposed as erroneous, lying idiots you think you can turn it all back onto me.

You are a troll Gert, no more, no less.


“I've told you why I don't believe you and why. I'm not gonna repeat that.”

You haven’t told me why at all you lying troll; you have just thrown insults at me and tried to shut me up from proving your fellow nut wrong on every count.

There is no reason why you wouldn’t believe what the official statistics are telling you other then the fact that you are a deluded nut.


“It's time to call it a day, Sent.”

Like I said, who do you think you are? You are less then a pimple on a pigs arse to me.

If THR wants to throw yet more easily disproved fantasy at me and call me a “liar” and “a dribbling idiot” for not accepting at the same time, then I will keep use the facts, the evidence and the truth to prove him wrong.

Anonymous said...

The fact that your opposition doesn't even bother trying to support their arguments with evidence, Sentinel, is conclusive proof that they have none to support it with. All they have are their liberal religious articles of faith to cling to (all men are equal, if minorities commit more crime it's because they've been wronged in the past by the racist capitalist system and are therefore justified... etc., etc.)

They've lost the debate. All they've got left is ad hominem, and with each subsequent racial epithet they level at you, it destigmatizes the accusatory term.

Keep up the great work!

THR said...

One blog confirms Bolt and his figures were right but disagrees about the direction, the other plays semantic games about whether an African refugee who, in a frenzy, killed his wife by repeatedly stabbing in the head and chest should actually be called a murderer after being granted a taxi license and the third piece of pish comes from a PC lunatic fringe who state: “ACRAWSA is a growing social and cultural network of researchers who recognise that whiteness operates through institutions, ideology and identity formation.”


No, the first article demonstrates that you have a total of 115 distinct Somalian offenders. This is in a population of thousands. So yes, that may be enough to suggest some problems with young males settling into the country. It certainly isn't evidence of some crackpot 'PC' takeover, or reason to hide under the bed for fear of African refugees.

You keep repeating the same linnks over and over. There flawed. You somehow think that professional statisticians who blog aren't credible, but right wing hacks from the Murdoch media are. Of course some police point the finger at immigrants - police have their own problems with racism, and certainly are not on good terms with a number of ethnic communities. All the same, the recent spate of violence in Melbourne has had nothing to do with Africans. This is fact. So your positions on this are more about your feverish imagination than anything grounded in reality.

The Sentinel said...

THR,

Back for another beating with the truth stick I see.

“No, the first article demonstrates that you have a total of 115 distinct Somalian offenders. This is in a population of thousands…You somehow think that professional statisticians who blog aren't credible”


Are you for real? Are you? Have you even read your so-called source?

He CONFIRMS Bolts statistics are correct:


“I was responsible for doing the numbers the editorial was based on. I also entirely agree with the general slant of it, in that Bolt is being a nasty little twat – not because his numbers are wrong, in fact, the few numbers he provided are generally correct – no doubt a testament to his new calculator.”


He is politically motivated, politically disagrees, with the conclusions – not the actual facts; what a nut you are!!!

And here is more from your “source”:


“The Somalian community in Victoria has a problem, a large problem…that needs urgent attention by both the community themselves and government…

However, what is happening in, to and with this community goes far beyond the expected increase in crime levels associated with such a skewed age population distribution. In fact, what is happening with Somalian born Victorians can only be described as a complete failure of the migrant resettlement…

If we compare the Census data to the Victorian crime data and look at how many distinct offenders there are per thousand population for each age cohort, and compare the numbers for the Victorian community as a whole against the Somalian born community in Victoria, we find some pretty disturbing numbers…

These are extraordinary numbers by any yardstick and point to not only dysfunction within the community itself…

The simplest answer is simply to stop migration from Somalia at its source and substitute it for other African groups…”


So yeah, thanks for providing a “source” confirming everything Bolt said, Andrews said and I have evidenced is true. Well done.


“this is in a population of thousands”

Only 2600 in Victoria so far actually; and with this rate they are, as previously contended, eight times over represented!!! Get it now?

Of that 100 Africans who surrounded the police and seriously assaulted them, how many were from this “distinct” group, do you think?

And could it even really be 20 times over represented as according to this survey:


“"A survey in Australia found that in Melbourne magistrate’s courts, offenders from the horn of Africa and the Middle East (Somali, Sudanese and Arab muslims) were 20 times the representative proportion of their population…"

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,,21166482-661,00.html


“It certainly isn't evidence of some crackpot 'PC' takeover, or reason to hide under the bed for fear of African refugees”

This is just the start of your global mass immigration programme in earnest, and even given these small numbers, the impact on crime has been enormous; as has the contempt shown for the law and the challenge to your police aleady has been laid down as clearly evidenced by a mass attack on them. (And you and your ilk are going to further exacerbate it with your spurious claims that police wacism is to blame,)

When the numbers increase so will the crime; this has been the experience of EVERY “western” country that has walked down the same path you are walking. What makes you think you are special?

In fact, that has even been the experience with some of the other wefugees you took in, such as the Lebanese, in their 3rd and 4th generation now.

The Sentinel said...

“You keep repeating the same linnks over and over.”

That’s because you’re not very bright and need a bit of helping along.

A bit like the old joke of the difference between a cowboy and a computer – the computer only needs the information punched in once – you are that cowboy.

And trust me, they are not all the same, we are up to about 30 different pieces of independent evidence now.


“There flawed”

The official statistics are flawed? Really, then prove it gobshite…


“You somehow think that professional statisticians who blog aren't credible, but right wing hacks from the Murdoch media are.”

Professional journalists are trained and accountable. Bloggers, well, there just not now are they…

And as a result, just for a start, they tend not to describe their subject as “a nasty little twat…


“Of course some police point the finger at immigrants - police have their own problems with racism”

Just an old PC canard to explain immigrant crime. So these police are setting up all of these immigrants now are they?

Again, go ahead and prove it gobshite…


“and certainly are not on good terms with a number of ethnic communities.”


So it would seem when 100 newly arrived African “refugees” –that is ‘altruistically’ let into the country for their own well being, good and safety – feel they can violently surround the officers of the law of that country and put them in hospital.


“All the same, the recent spate of violence in Melbourne has had nothing to do with Africans.”

Maybe the Lebanese then?

Second on the disproportionate list…

Because I am not sure if your comprehension stretches that far, but Australians come list on that list..


“"PEOPLE born overseas committed one in seven of crimes in Victoria last financial year, including a quarter of rapes and one in five murders.

Exclusive police statistics also show immigrants were behind a quarter of robberies, a fifth of sex assaults, abductions and kidnappings, and 3792 assaults...

The anatomy of crime in Victoria, obtained by the Sunday Herald Sun, shows those born in Somalia, Lebanon and New Zealand had the highest crime-per-population rates in Victoria.

They are followed by Turkish, Vietnamese and then Australian-born criminals."

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,23342911-2862,00.html


“This is fact…”

Great, so you must have plenty of evidence. I’d be very intrigued to see it.


And while we are at, can you produce the evidence for your earlier contention that many of the Sudanese and Somalian’s are Christian?

Thanks.


“So your positions on this are more about your feverish imagination than anything grounded in reality.”


No, not even remotely.

You have already been thoroughly trounced and added nothing new now but more hot air, which did, however, give me the opportunity to expand on how your supposed trump card contradicts all of your contentions.

Thanks.

THR said...

The official statistics are flawed? Really, then prove it gobshite…

I did, moron. There are a total of 115 Somalian offenders. Since most Somalians are in the peak age range for offending, they end up over-represented. As the link showed, 1 offender in the 55-59 age range was sufficient to blow out the stats and make Somalians look over-represented.

Your cretinous claim about 1 in 7 rapists being born overseas proves nothing, since 1 in 5 Australians were born overseas according to the 2006 census. If we accept your stats, Australian-born individuals are actually more likely to be rapists than immigrants.

Back to dribbling for you. And perhaps you could limit your horseshit to a single comment, as your monopolising the thread with repetitious links that nobody will be bothered re-visiting anyway.

The Sentinel said...

THR,

“As the link showed, 1 offender in the 55-59 age range was sufficient to blow out the stats and make Somalians look over-represented.”

What fantastic crap.

Your own “source” has explained in his own words that even he thinks the Somalian’s “has a problem, a large problem…that needs urgent attention by both the community themselves and government…” along with everything else already carefully explained to you in as simple terms as possible above.


“Your cretinous claim about 1 in 7 rapists being born overseas proves nothing…If we accept your stats”

And see, your comprehension and limited intelligence lets you down again.

It is not “my claim” at all – or anyone’s “claim” for that matter – it is the official statistics.

Facts. Unless you can prove that they are lying...Go on gobshite...


“If we accept your stats, Australian-born individuals are actually more likely to be rapists than immigrants.”

I should hope so seeing as you are still the overwhelming majority as yet and the figures actually clearly tell you that is so.

Again your comprehension and limited intelligence fail you; what is being expressed here is the anatomy of crime in Victoria, the highest crime-per-population rates in Victoria.

And Australian-born criminals have the lowest crime-per-population rates in Victoria, with the Somalian’s having the highest. And five other groups separate the Australian-born criminals from the Somalian’s.


“And perhaps you could limit your horseshit to a single comment, as your monopolising the thread”

No thanks, if it’s all the same to you. Do you fear we are going to run out of space? Let me assure you, it doesn’t work that way.



Now, back to that evidence you were going to produce to back up your contentions…

THR said...

Shorter Senile: dribble, dribble, backpedal, Africans!, dribble...

We've seen that a single Somalian offender within an age cohort can make Somalians over-represented in the stats, yet you choose to dismiss this evidence.

You cite some statistical beat-up saying that 1 in 7 rapists in Australia are immigrants, when the fact remains that this makes immigrants significantly less likely than others to commit rape.

You claim that the Somalian community has some problems - well, I wouldn't disagree. Most people of all backgrounds who've fled civil war, been exposed to the rape, torture and murder of relatives, and lived for years in refugee camps are going to have 'problems'. This is quite irrespective or race. Of course, in Sentinel land, enduring a civil war and having your parents killed is equivalent to growing up in London's east End. The darkies should just get over it, I presume.

Moreover, suggesting that the Somalian community may have problems is a rather different proposition to claiming that there is a global PC conspiracy aimed at immigration. Immigration has been around since ancient time, Senile. Your conspiracies are fruitloop David Icke-style bullshit, and you fears pathetic and laughable. You need to harden the fuck up.


Meanwhile, in today's newspaper here in Australia, all those teetotalling Islamic Africans must be responsible for the latest crime waves in Melbourne:

http://www.theage.com.au/national/dont-drink-just-think-rudd-backs-afl-antiviolence-campaign-20090903-f91p.html

The Sentinel said...

THR,


"We've seen that a single Somalian offender within an age cohort can make Somalians over-represented in the stats, yet you choose to dismiss this evidence."

There is no evidence for that at all you clown.

You have been proven to be the most fantastic liar; quite remarkable. It is the hallmark and ingrained trait of the practitioners of your twisted religion though.

Do you really think, along with the summary I have already provided of your "source" that people can't go and read it for themselves and see what a fantasist twisted liar you are?

But go on then, for grins, why would your "source" - who you think backs you up - say all of the below on the crazy prospect that ONE person made the statistics seem higher then really they are?


“The Somalian community in Victoria has a problem, a large problem…that needs urgent attention by both the community themselves and government…

However, what is happening in, to and with this community goes far beyond the expected increase in crime levels associated with such a skewed age population distribution. In fact, what is happening with Somalian born Victorians can only be described as a complete failure of the migrant resettlement…

If we compare the Census data to the Victorian crime data and look at how many distinct offenders there are per thousand population for each age cohort, and compare the numbers for the Victorian community as a whole against the Somalian born community in Victoria, we find some pretty disturbing numbers…

These are extraordinary numbers by any yardstick and point to not only dysfunction within the community itself…

The simplest answer is simply to stop migration from Somalia at its source and substitute it for other African groups…”


Especially note the third paragraph.

Face it, you tried, you lied, you failed.

Even the only "source" you could come up with to back up your absurd contentions - a poxy blog - thoroughly disagrees with you and proves that the statistic are right.



"You cite some statistical beat-up saying that 1 in 7 rapists in Australia are immigrants, when the fact remains that this makes immigrants significantly less likely than others to commit rape."

You really are quite a stupid man are you not THR?

For a start, I thought these figures were just my "cretinous claim" not real? Finally sunk through that they are official figures and you've got shit to disprove them?

But once again your comprehension and limited intelligence fail you: There is the problem that the statistics actually say that immigrants committed A QUATER OF ALL RAPES and also then 1 IN 7 OF ALL CRIMES - YOU FUCKWIT!!!!

And as already carefully explained to you once before your comprehension and limited intelligence fail you each time; what is being expressed here in the breakdown is the anatomy of crime in Victoria, the highest crime-per-population rates in Victoria.

And Australian-born criminals have the lowest crime-per-population rates in Victoria, with the Somalian’s having the highest. And five other groups separate the Australian-born criminals from the Somalian’s.

Is that you're stupid, is it that you're a liar, or is it both?


"You claim that the Somalian community has some problems - well, I wouldn't disagree"

Finally; yes, they have a huge and disproportionate problem with crime.

The Sentinel said...

"Most people of all backgrounds who've fled civil war, been exposed to the rape, torture and murder of relatives, and lived for years in refugee camps are going to have 'problems'"

Oh, that's OK then. Let them run wild and commit as many crimes as they want. You should have said. You crime excusing fuckwit.

Why on earth would any decent and responsible leader - who has a legal and moral duty of care to his own people first and foremost - think that there is any possible benefit to anyone in bringing these "problems" wholesale into their country?

But all in all it largely bullshit in any case; it is the just the first wave PC excuse for this mass immigration and its resultant crime; we in Europe have been through all of the excuses. And still we see the reality that race is very much a part of crime; that in the UK, for example, people that have not been anywhere near "civil war, rape, torture and murder" - who have been brought as 3rd, 4th and even 5th generation in the UK and given a high standard of living still manage to produce the lions share of the worst crimes whilst constituting a purported fraction of the population, take this:

In the UK it was leaked that 73% of those charged with knife crime were non-white (whist white victims made up the largest group) Over 70 per cent of London’s gun suspects were black, as were 50 per cent of the victims. In 80% of gang rape cases, the defendants were black. There are five times more young blacks in prison then whites.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1036833/Over-half-young-knife-suspects-black-Scotland-Yard-figures-reveal.html

http://www.itv.com/PressCentre/InTheLineOfFire/Ep1Wk07/default.html

http://www.newstatesman.com/199811200011

http://www.bbc.co.uk/1xtra/tx/black_crime.shtml


All of this, from a 2001 census reported 3% of the population. That is unimaginably disproportionate. And again, not a civil war in sight.



"Of course, in Sentinel land, enduring a civil war and having your parents killed is equivalent to growing up in London's east End."

Don't tell me about war, rape, torture, murder and refugee camps. I have been around it fella, I spent years around it. What do you know of it? I have never robbed, raped or murdered anyone as a result.

And growing up in poverty tells me that your other bullshit crime excuse is just that. Criminals commit crimes.


"Moreover, suggesting that the Somalian community may have problems is a rather different proposition to claiming that there is a global PC conspiracy aimed at immigration. Immigration has been around since ancient time"

Its not just the Somalis who have "problems" in Australia, as you well know; it is also the Lebanese, the Islanders, the Vietnamese and the Turkish.


"The anatomy of crime in Victoria, obtained by the Sunday Herald Sun, shows those born in Somalia, Lebanon and New Zealand had the highest crime-per-population rates in Victoria.

They are followed by Turkish, Vietnamese and then Australian-born criminals."

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,23342911-2862,00.html


The people born in Australia are the evidently most law abiding, by a long chalk.

The Sentinel said...

"Senile. Your conspiracies are fruitloop David Icke-style bullshit"

That's where you want to take them, clearly. But the truth is that you are the conspiracy theorist. And some.

First of all none of the figures even existed; then they were not true; then they were all distortions made up by the police and government ministers and now they are true but so what?!!!

You clown.

I hardly need to prove the PC agenda when it is in plain sight: It is a fact is that every, that is every, western countries "leaders" has felt the strange urge to flood their countries with mass immigration that has and will fundamentally change the character and demographics of that country and has resulted in massive crime increases, social tensions and multi-tier, multi-standard societies and they have done it using the same twisted and discredited arguments and lies and enforced it with same twisted and Orwellian devices.

It has not only not benefited their own people, the people they are supposed to serve but caused them immense harm and given them more opportunities to be the victims of crime, for one.

Let’s take rape for example, and let’s take Sweden for instance; once a very safe, progressive liberal democracy with the most sexually liberated people on the planet....

Or perhaps the UK? Or Denmark? Or Norway? Or France? Or all of them you clown....


"and you fears pathetic and laughable"

No, what is pathetic and laughable is your absurd lies and your absolute lack of evidence to support anything you have to say.

The Sentinel said...

"You need to harden the fuck up."

Really? I was brought up in the toughest areas in one the toughest cities; passed "P" company selection when I was 18; served in my first war zone when I was 18 and many, many more since... You fuckwit...

But what a strange thing to say anyway? Are you suggesting I need to "harden the fuck up" to insulate myself from immigrant crime?

If so, then fella, I really suggest you get and learn to be a real man, because you have got some great things coming your way!!!


"Meanwhile, in today's newspaper here in Australia, all those teetotalling Islamic Africans must be responsible for the latest crime waves in Melbourne:"

But hang, you said that "many Sudanese and Somali's are Christian" - didn't you? In fact you were adamant about, Never produced any evidence, mind you, but you know it to be true. Are you now saying that this is just another "fact" you pulled out of your arse?

And well, as per usual, this is just a piece of crap that you come up with as "evidence" to counter real evidence that per population, the Australians are the least criminal. And again, this latest crap is easily disproved.

Here is the truth about the African alcohol problem (yet another problem) and before you start spouting more crap, wasn't Mohammed Atta and his entire crew proven to drink lots of alcohol, eat pork, go with whores and still carry out the worlds biggest Islamic attack for Allah?


"POLICE are advising the Immigration Department for the first time about how and where to settle troubled African refugees....

African Think Tank chairman Berhan Ahmed yesterday praised the rural settlement, saying it would help the Sudanese integrate, find work and avoid drugs, alcohol and street crime.

"The influence of drugs and alcohol will not be there, and it will be much easier for kids and refugee families to adjust in rural areas," he said."

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,23427313-421,00.html



"especially with the rise of gangs of Sudanese youths and drunk drivers."

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,,21166482-661,00.html

"THE young policeman was angry, and cautious.

He knew what he was saying was dangerous and there was no way he would put his name to it.

But it had to be said: "The Sudanese kids are a real problem.

"You pull them over in the car. They are drunk. They don't have a licence. Some of them are only 14.

"You tell them they'll be charged and they laugh at you. At home, they'd be shot or beaten.

"Whatever we do to them just doesn't matter. The next day, there they are again, out on the road.

"Chances are they'll be drunk or off their heads on something...

There was and is a serious and continuing problem with unlicensed and drunk driving among Sudanese refugees in Melbourne."

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,21148976-5006029,00.html


So once again, we are all waiting for some evidence to back up any of your already thoroughly discredited absurdities...

Gert said...

Sentinel:

The reason why I have no intention to refute what you spout is that you start from a false premise and thus inevitably arrive at the wrong conclusions. I've already explained this to you but I'll do it again, for the record.

Time and time again you've shown yourself to be a believer in 'racial theory' and like all believers you also believe in the innate superiority of 'own' race. Very recently you came over to mine in that typical style of yours, once again with 'evidence in hand', claiming racial theory had finally and conclusively been vindicated on the basis of genetic research. That that particular piece of research not only NOT had that particular purpose and never concluded anything about race either, did not bother you in the slightest. Your self-serving interpretation once again fed your obsession about race. And the quickness with which you jumped to the 'race is real' conclusion shows how little you understand of science or even evidence.

Starting from your completely false (AND dangerous) premise you then set out to try and feverishly collect any link or scrap of text that seems to confirm your false premise (most of what you collect are op-ed pieces from people who think like you, other statistics you've presented, as in the case of Australia THR has shown conclusively, are decidedly dodgy).

All this makes discussing problems caused by immigration impossible with you and that's why people like you are usually shunned from the public debate about it: there is nothing you can possibly contribute when the entire premise from which you start is an old fallacy, one that, like other old hatreds, just doesn't want to go away, partly because naive fools like you are desperate to keep them alive.

What these old hatreds can lead to we've seen amply in WW II (but also well before and well after). Today we're seeing a resurgence of attacks on Roma in both Italy and Hungary (please don't ask for evidence: Mr Google that you are, you should be capable of finding abundant evidence of it). In both cases, brownshirt-style vigilante groups carried out the attacks.

All racism of that nature requires two conditions in which it can thrive.

1. Primitive pattern seeking: lemmesee, Brits have a notorious reputation for binge drinking and for very bad behaviour abroad. Of course many Brits do not behave that way but to a pattern seeker it's tempting to believe the behaviour is typically British. To the racist this would mean that the 'British Race' has an innate problem with alcohol, further compounded when members of it set foot outside Britain. Clearly false.
2. Scapegoatism: a tendency to attribute all societal ills to a 'foreign' or 'alien' body of 'others'. Combined with phantasmagorical and nostalgic ideas of a 'purer', more 'glorious' past, it then becomes clear to the racist that the perceived loss of prestige, power etc of the homeland must be caused by a 'cancer from within', i.e. 'non-indigenous people'. And the tumour is removable, no?

There are other factors that tend to amplify it [racism]: in times of crisis, scapegoating becomes inevitably more prevalent, for instance.

Regards your assertion of my living in Bridlington disqualifying me, it would also disqualify you from saying anything about the vast place called Australia.

Also, please don't come to Brid to try telling people this is a tame place: conservatively minded people here are convinced this is truly the Wild West of Yorkshire, rampant with crime and... with far too many immigrants! Again, the former part would be easy to believe if one just concentrated on few notoriously badly behaved council estates, although as far as I know there are no (zero) immigrants there.

Conservative newspapers thrive on exaggerating the threat of crime, thereby feeding a pre-existent condition in those who want to try and understand the world in the simplest black-and-white terms.

Gert said...

And the truth remains that it would be much fairer if you continued your barrage over at your own place, instead of completely hijacking this thread as your personal soap box. Many, many blogs, including my own, would not have been so patient. You can call it what you want but there's such a thing as overstaying one's welcome.

The last comment I read on your blog, before it closed itself to the public, was someone calling you a 'racist stalker'. Well, I didn't follow up on that but considering what you're doing here, I would say he was well within his rights.

Try and round up. You've had more than your share of 'right to reply' and we've all heard you. Repetition ad nauseam won't serve your cause.

The Sentinel said...

Gertrude,

Just another fantastic collection of rubbish, lies and PC canards.

In short merely another troll distraction away from the fact that THR has no evidence for his contentions whilst I have plenty and another troll attempt to silence me from proving it.



"The reason why I have no intention to refute what you spout is that you start from a false premise"

The real reason is that my premise - immigrants in every western country commit disproportionate amounts of crime - is completely correct. And you know damn well it is; as all of the evidence tells us it is.

That is the real reason why you "have no intention to refute" the facts; you'll end up looking just as much as an arse as THR.


"Time and time again you've shown yourself to be a believer in 'racial theory'"

Back to that Orwellian PC device of "believers" and "deniers" - race is a fact, not a theory and that has been conclusively proven and I presented the evidence on your webrag, leaving you to whimper that you don't "believe" as the final desperate resort.


"and like all believers you also believe in the innate superiority of 'own' race"

Another lie from you. I have never said that. You made that up and keep repeating the lie as fact.


"Starting from your completely false (AND dangerous) premise you then set out to try and feverishly collect"

See the idiotic language - proving my point is "feverish" - go on tell everyone in true tabloid style that it "sparks fear."


"as in the case of Australia THR has shown conclusively, are decidedly dodgy"

You really are just a twisted liar and a fanatic; THR has proved nothing - nothing, it is there for all to see - he linked to blog as "evidence" and that blog pulled him apart. He contends that one - YES ONE - Somalian threw out all of the statistics and made it appear that they are 8 times over represented.

That is not what was said - even remotely - on that blog of his - you are a lying troll Gert; and you are at again.


"All this makes discussing problems caused by immigration impossible with you and that's why people like you"

People like me, now is it? As opposed to people like you: Anti-semitic, sexually deviant cranks?

People like me who present the facts? You are a joke and your whole PC world is starting to fall apart at the seems.


"What these old hatreds can lead to we've seen amply in WW II "

And we have seen amply in places like Bosnia what happens when ethnic tensions, rivalries and natural competition as well as tensions over crime bring about a meltdown; Well, I have seen it, you may have read about it.


"Today we're seeing a resurgence of attacks on Roma in both Italy and Hungary (please don't ask for evidence: Mr Google that you are, you should be capable of finding abundant evidence of it)"

If you want to include it, then prove Mr Anti-semite.

Attacks against the indigenous peoples of Europe through gross criminal conduct is legion, just take the rape epidemic in Sweden and who is perpetrating it, and who the victims are; or the gun crime in London - just for instance Gert; let alone the racist abuse - attempts at ethnic cleansing - that people are having to put up with from Muslims aleady in the UK as evidenced by that BBC report in the links above.

That is my concern Gertrude.

The Sentinel said...

"All racism of that nature requires two conditions in which it can thrive."

1) It is the irrefutable truth that immigrants - particular those form the Third World, first generation or not - are responsible for huge disproportionately impacts on crime; in many countries, such as the UK that has been carrying out the mass immigration for long enough, that impact on crime means not just disproportion but dominance.

For instance, in 2001 the census claimed 3% of the UK were black, yet they manage to do all of this:

73% of those charged with knife crime were non-white (whist white victims made up the largest group) Over 70 per cent of London’s gun suspects were black, as were 50 per cent of the victims. In 80% of gang rape cases, the defendants were black. There are five times more young blacks in prison then whites.

And that pattern can be proved across every western country.

2) When you can see such a pattern, it is not "Scapegoatism"but common sense that says there are measures that can be taken to prevent this pattern emerging again; i.e in Australia.


All PC of that nature requires two conditions in which it can thrive:

1) Excuses and lies

2) Orwellian threats of consequences for speaking out and speaking the truth



"Regards your assertion of my living in Bridlington disqualifying me, it would also disqualify you from saying anything about the vast place called Australia."

The big difference is, that not only did I live in Australia for years, but I was born and bred in the mess fuckwits like you have created, I watched the East End get colonised by foreigners, and I still live amongst the mess that fuckwit like you have created.

You don't though do you.


"Also, please don't come to Brid to try telling people this is a tame place: conservatively minded people here are convinced this is truly the Wild West of Yorkshire, rampant with crime"

Oh go away you fantasist clown!!!

The report I linked to above tells the real tales; and when I did a courses at the All Arms Driving School in Leconfield I used to go through Bridlington a lot, as some of the instructors were from there and loved it as an oasis.


"although as far as I know there are no (zero) immigrants there"

Exacyly what Pagan Temple and I said in the first place!!!

And lucky you; your chances of being robbed, raped or murdered are significantly lower then mine.

The Sentinel said...

"instead of completely hijacking this thread as your personal soap box"

Like I have said many times, and as anyone can see - you brought it here with your pure argumentum ad hominem and off-topic sniping.

I asked you to stop your personal remarks and off topic crap repeatedly, even Renegade Eye asked to stop "We don't need to recap the personal nonsense" but you carried on anyway. Because you are a troll.

You haven't made one on topic comment in this thread; you tried to derail the original debate by your personal remarks and off topic sniping and it lead here, and now you are doing it again.


"Many, many blogs, including my own, would not have been so patient. You can call it what you want but there's such a thing as overstaying one's welcome."

Again, who do you think you are? You, and you alone, are the troll that brought it here.

I couldn't give two shits what you think. Your "patience" i.e tendency to fascistic censorship in the face of a losing battle interests me naught.


"The last comment I read on your blog, before it closed itself to the public, was someone calling you a 'racist stalker'. Well, I didn't follow up on that but considering what you're doing here, I would say he was well within his rights."

Another fantastic lie.

Besides the fact that you are the one trolling and stalking me non-stop,
the last comment on my blog - apart from an anonymous one about hoffman gil - was from Renegade Eye in a post about a guy I served with in the army being taken hostage as a private security contractor in Iraq and then finally having his body released a couple of years later.


"Try and round up. You've had more than your share of 'right to reply' and we've all heard you."

Look you troll, you are not even in this debate; you have never been in this debate. You haven't made one on topic comment in this entire thread. The only contribution you have made is bringing it around to this subject and down to this level of incivility.

If THR wants to throw yet more easily disproved fantasy at me and call me a “liar” and “a dribbling idiot” for not accepting at the same time, then I will keep use the facts, the evidence and the truth to prove him wrong.

You don't like, don't come back to this thread and troll anymore.


So, having now fully addressed your distraction, perhaps you could answer the questions about your behaviour now:

Who in their right mind would add the racial taunt of “Jewish” in front of a sexual taunt about “tits”? What difference would it make about the ethnicity of the owner of these “tits”? Who would use Nazi terminology to refer to the state born out of the holocaust and its people?

You have been picked up on that and more by dozens and thoroughly reviled for it - can you really not see why people think you are a racist, anti-Semitic sexual deviant?

Gert said...

Sent:

"Who in their right mind would add the racial taunt of “Jewish” in front of a sexual taunt about “tits”?"

Read the context. Using the word "Jewish" makes it anti-Semitic now? You're not even reasoning in good faith anymore, but call all other arguments ad hom.

You're nuts. Completely stark raving bonkers.

Please don't visit my blog again.

Bye.

Gert said...

I've unsubscribed from this thread. Spout what you want, I won't be reading it anymore. About time too...

The Sentinel said...

Gertrude,

Trust me, the last thing I want is anything further to do with a deranged stalking troll like you.

You and you alone brought it all down to this, and around to this topic, Gert; I was quite happy on topic, actually I found that debate very interesting but you wouldn't have it; you had to try and force your persona on me, attempted to discredit me personally and not my opinion and insulted me endlessly, all whilst attempting to force me to shut up, stop defending myself and my contentions and accept absurd rubbish directed at me personally - although without a single on topic comment of your own.

Clearly you're nuts. Completely stark raving bonkers. You try to deny irrefutable facts and evidence and side with clearly discredited "sources" that anyone can read and see do not support the posters contentions.

Facts are facts and your Orwellian attempts at intimidation and silencing do not bother me at all.

As for the extreme and gross sexual insults I had directed at me for expressing facts - that bothers you not; and that says it all really. Especially as you are a practitioner of them yourself. You try to paint yourself as some sort moral, PC lily-white God and the truth is far from it - as many, many have pointed out.

All in all, a debate is about exchanging opinion and backing those opinions up with facts when challenged, and that's all I have done. All the rest, the nasty insults, the hysteria, the labels - they are desperate distractions from a debate; if you really believe your contentions and you have the evidence there is never any need for them, especially to resort to insults of "incest" as your first recourse.

I am not a fan of profanity and insults and you will see that throughout my online conduct; if I am insulted I will respond eventually - human after all - but I never go as low as the instigator.

As the somewhat ironic banner of the last blog that banned you - Harry's Place - says:

"Liberty, if it means anything, is the right to tell people what they dont want to hear."

THR said...

This is becoming extremely tedious, Senile, indulging in your racial obsessions comment after comment.

And that pattern can be proved across every western country.


I doubt the pattern can be proved anywhere, but it certainly can't be proved in Australia. What's with your fascination for the blacks, anyway? I take it you think they're the muscle for the Jews, right?

Don't tell me about war, rape, torture, murder and refugee camps. I have been around it fella, I spent years around it. What do you know of it? I have never robbed, raped or murdered anyone as a result.

And growing up in poverty tells me that your other bullshit crime excuse is just that. Criminals commit crimes.


I never said poverty caused crimes. People who are refugees by definition have to endured a bit more than mere poverty in any case. And obvously, your upbringing has not left you unscathed. You seem to spend all your time making a fucking jackass of yourself on leftwing blogs.

The big difference is, that not only did I live in Australia for years, but I was born and bred in the mess fuckwits like you have created, I watched the East End get colonised by foreigners, and I still live amongst the mess that fuckwit like you have created.

You don't though do you.


I've always lived in Melbourne's North West, which is one of the most ethnically diverse aprt of Australia. Unlike you, I'm not wetting my pants in terror at 115 Somalian offenders.

Oh, that's OK then. Let them run wild and commit as many crimes as they want. You should have said. You crime excusing fuckwit.

Nope, never said that. Lying again.

And still we see the reality that race is very much a part of crime; that in the UK, for example, people that have not been anywhere near "civil war, rape, torture and murder" - who have been brought as 3rd, 4th and even 5th generation in the UK and

I seem to recall some fellows in the 30s saying something rather similar. In any case, people who've been in a country for 3-5 generations aren't immigrants.

The people born in Australia are the evidently most law abiding, by a long chalk

That's been proven false repeatedly here. One in five Australians are from overseas, and as we've seen, it's about 1 in 5 who are doing crimes across the board.

First of all none of the figures even existed; then they were not true; then they were all distortions made up by the police and government ministers and now they are true but so what?!!!

You've repeatedly alleged a PC conspiracy, without providing a skerrick of proof. Andrews was caught lying not only by the police, but by the Dept of Immigration. Fail.

Let’s take rape for example, and let’s take Sweden for instance; once a very safe, progressive liberal democracy with the most sexually liberated people on the planet....

Or perhaps the UK? Or Denmark? Or Norway? Or France? Or all of them you clown....


You should actually visit these places rather than just rely on rightwing crimeporn sites for your info. They're all perfectly safe.

The rest of your comments are utter biggerish. Your claims to be a serviceman a risible, given that you'd have to be the most prissy and histrionic soldier otside an episode of Blackadder. And who the fuck are 'indigenous' Europeans? Should the Lombards start kicking out those with Spanish, Prussian and Neapolitan heritage?

THR said...

I thought I'd offer a final few remarks before I retire from this thread, which has grown dull for some time. Obviously, The Senile will remain certain that the Apocalypse is coming in the form of Somalians. For everybody else:

Despite Senile's unsubstantiated claims about a global 'PC' agenda at work in Australia, Australia has treated would-be refugees very harshly over the past couple of decades, particularly when they arrive by boat and are Asian, Middle Eastern or African. This has been well documented.

Senile doesn't appear to grasp the distinction between a refugee and an immigrant. Australia accepts a certain, fixed number of refugees as it is a signatory to the UN Charter for Human Rights. Accepting refugees is an obligation under this charter, though which refugees are selected is up for debate. Australia has allowed relatively high levels of immigration for the past few decades (particularly under conservative governments, mind you) to fill skills shortages, and to shore up relatively low birth rates. If not for the post-WWII influx of immigrants, the Australian economy would be in a dire position.

Finally, every wave of immigrants since Australia's settlement has been greet with racism. This has happened consecutively to the Irish, Chinese, the Greeks and Italians, the Vietnamese, and now is directed at people from the Middle East and the Horn of Africa. The racists shrieking has been entirely wrong in every single instance in the country's history, and there is no good reason to believe that they've got it correct this time around.

Anonymous said...

HA HA HA!

senile is making up compliments for himself like the delusional cunt he is.

*psst*

he thinks he was in the army but really he was too busy being really good on the internets HA! his webpage is so bad i'm sure he has a btec in teh interwebs

the sentinel is a racist

Anonymous said...

oh and i wonder is the delusional coward will want to have the last word?

GO SENILE GO YOU RACIST DELUDED HUNK OF SHIT!

The Sentinel said...

Everything is the fault of non-whites and I am a racist.

So?

The Sentinel said...

THR,

Yet again, you add nothing new and present no evidence at all, just more childish insults and barbs in lieu of substance.

You can shout and claim racism as much as you want but the truth is that I am not making any of this up; it is all proven facts – the problem you have is with the truth.

All of your contentions have been thoroughly trounced; a short review of how you have been taken apart:

You first claim the former Immigration minister was lying and was a race-baiting hate monger; I then proved that not even African community leaders in Australia thought that, as this professor expressed:

““THE debate on the reduction in African refugees for this financial year, which was triggered by Immigration Minister Kevin Andrews last week, has focused too much on race. As an African, I was surprised by the minister's choice of words, but I see no evidence of racism in his explanation.

The decision to reduce the African refugee intake had been taken earlier in the year. Indeed, there was no controversy when it became public in March that of the 13,000 refugees expected in 2007-08, 30 per cent would come from Africa, 35 per cent from the Middle East and 35 per cent from Asia…

When I was president of the African community in Western Australia a few years ago, I often wondered whether we were doing the right thing by bringing people here from war-torn societies and failing to provide the resources necessary to help them integrate into the wider society.”

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,22564242-7583,00.html

That’s right – the truth is even he wondered if it was the right thing to do.


You then denied the stataics existed / were true / said they were distorted / that ONE person aged 55-59 made them wrong (!!) but it has been firmly established that Africans are, as of 2007 eight times over represented in crime.

We also know that that a sample survey in Melbourne showed that:


“"A survey in Australia found that in Melbourne magistrate’s courts, offenders from the horn of Africa and the Middle East (Somali, Sudanese and Arab muslims) were 20 times the representative proportion of their population…"

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,,21166482-661,00.html


And we know that even your own “source” – the ONLY piece of “evidence” you presented, remarkably, had this to say:


“The Somalian community in Victoria has a problem, a large problem…that needs urgent attention by both the community themselves and government…

However, what is happening in, to and with this community goes far beyond the expected increase in crime levels associated with such a skewed age population distribution. In fact, what is happening with Somalian born Victorians can only be described as a complete failure of the migrant resettlement…

If we compare the Census data to the Victorian crime data and look at how many distinct offenders there are per thousand population for each age cohort, and compare the numbers for the Victorian community as a whole against the Somalian born community in Victoria, we find some pretty disturbing numbers…

These are extraordinary numbers by any yardstick and point to not only dysfunction within the community itself…

The simplest answer is simply to stop migration from Somalia at its source and substitute it for other African groups…”

The Sentinel said...

We know as a fact that again, counter to your contentions, Australians are the least criminal per population:

“"PEOPLE born overseas committed one in seven of crimes in Victoria last financial year, including a quarter of rapes and one in five murders.

Exclusive police statistics also show immigrants were behind a quarter of robberies, a fifth of sex assaults, abductions and kidnappings, and 3792 assaults...

The anatomy of crime in Victoria, obtained by the Sunday Herald Sun, shows those born in Somalia, Lebanon and New Zealand had the highest crime-per-population rates in Victoria.

They are followed by Turkish, Vietnamese and then Australian-born criminals."

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,23342911-2862,00.html


And we also know for a fact that you cannot read and comprehend a simple, short statistic like that and though it meant that 1 in 7 RAPISTS were immigrants!!!

If you can’t even comprehend something as simple as that, what use are you?

You then made bold claims that “many Sudanese and Somalian’s are Christians” which was completely wrong as I proved Sudan has less then 5% Christians,
whilst Somalia has none on record.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_Somalia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sudan#Religion_in_Sudan

You also made bold claims about the Mufti of Australia not representing Muslims in Australia or having any credibility in their in eyes in relation to his justifications of rape.

I then proved that your contention couldn’t be further from the truth:


“To become a mufti he had to complete the Iftaa course - an intense Islamic scholar course - and then he had to pass five conditions set and judged by his peers - scholars : First: He must be a Muslim; Second: He must have reached the age of puberty; Third: He must be just and trustworthy. Fourth: Ijma (consensus) This is the opinion of a majority of the scholars; Fifth: He must have the qualities of intellect and be of a good mind.

It takes years of study and process, a deep understanding of the Koran, the respect of your peers, and a majority consensus and that is just to be a mufti.

Then, the Australian Federation of Islamic Councils appointed him Mufti of Australia in 1988; that is the head Mufti of all the Muftis of Australia (Sunni, not Cher) - he was the head in the region he was appointed in the same way as the pope.

And that 90% of the 318,940 Muslims in Australia are Sunni"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Islam

The Sentinel said...

You then made claims that there was no PC agenda in all Western countries and that there was no pattern of immigrant crime; again I proved you wrong taking just Sweden and the UK as an example:

“A rapist was four times more likely to have been born abroad – with Algeria, Libya, Morocco and Tunisia dominating the group of rape suspects and also that non-whites were responsible for 25% of all crime in Sweden”

http://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/article327666.ab

http://www.thelocal.se/2683/20051214/

As a result of the mass immigration into Sweden and elements of those immigrants carrying out rapes on an uprecedeneted scale, the cases of rape have quadrupled and the cases of the RAPE OF CHILDREN – that is under 15 year olds – is SIX– 6 – times higher, then it was 20 years ago.

http://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/article326023.ab

It is so bad that Sweden, a tiny country population wise and once one the safest in the world, now has the highest rape rate in Europe. Twice as much as its nearest contender the UK.

http://www.thelocal.se/19102/

And that Swedes were fleeing in record numbers as record numbers of fresh immigrants were arriving:

“Immigration to Sweden in 2006 reached its highest level since records began. At the same time emigration also soared to a level not seen in over 100 years, according to official figures published by Statistics Sweden.”

http://www.thelocal.se/article.php?ID=6412

I also proved that the situation regarding immigrants and crime, taking rape as the example, is the same all through Scandinavia:

The Norwegian police report that EVERY – yes that is EVERY - case of aggravated sexual assault ending in rape in the capital Oslo over the past three years was committed by immigrants – primarily Africans and Kurds.

They said: “The cases of aggravated sexual assaults all have one thing in common, namely the use of gross violence.”

http://www.norwaypost.no/content/view/21900/26/

Two out of three people charged with all rapes in Oslo are immigrants.

http://www.aftenposten.no/english/local/article190268.ece

In Denmark non-white immigrants committed 68% of all rapes, and it was revealed that non-white immigrants were over-represented in all crime by an average of 46% and in Copenhagen 47.5% of prisoners on remand for serious crimes were non-white.

http://www.cphpost.dk/news/1-latest-news/27877.html

I also proved that the situation vis-à-vis African crime was mirrored in the UK, albeit to a higher scale to Australia due to the higher numbers:

“In the UK it was leaked that 73% of those charged with knife crime were non-white (whist white victims made up the largest group) Over 70 per cent of London’s gun suspects were black, as were 50 per cent of the victims. In 80% of gang rape cases, the defendants were black. There are five times more young blacks in prison then whites.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1036833/Over-half-young-knife-suspects-black-Scotland-Yard-figures-reveal.html

http://www.itv.com/PressCentre/InTheLineOfFire/Ep1Wk07/default.html

http://www.newstatesman.com/199811200011

http://www.bbc.co.uk/1xtra/tx/black_crime.shtml

All of this, from a 2001 census reported 3% of the population. That is unimaginably
disproportionate. And again, not a civil war in sight.”

So your claims that these countries are “safe” is rubbish; they used to be though. Equally as absurd are you claims that there is no pattern.

And I only used a few examples; France, for instance, has been in what a senior interior minister described a little while back as a state of “near civil war” in many of its immigrant suburbs with rioting, dozens of cars being burned and the police being attacked EVERY NIGHT, and I’d be more then happy to prove all of that too.

The Sentinel said...

So you see, THR, you and your absurdities have been thoroughly dealt with by way of EVIDENCE; that is FACTS and the TRUTH has PROVED that you are WRONG on EVERYTHING you have contended.

Nothing about "racism" at all. All facts.

That you refuse to accept is just testament to your stupidity and fanaticism.

Stick to sexual deviance and taunts about incest and bestiality instead of trying to run with the big boys.

You are way out of your depth, Son.

The Sentinel said...

Hoffman-gill,

What kind of a deranged coward demands rules on a blog that he doesn’t have on his own, then breaks those rules consistently, but tries to get around it by posting under different ID’s, including attempting to spoof my ID, whilst calling for these rules to be applied to someone who hasn’t even broken any of these rules, all the time peppering the thread with profanity and insults like “cunt”?

Well, clearly you.

Hoffman-gill you are a just a deranged, idiotic, foul mouthed, rape and incest obsessed lying spoofing troll.

And a coward into the bargain.

Good luck Eva Jane.

THR said...

It was obvious that immigration troofer Senile would try to get the last word, and that that last word would be as dishonest as everything else he's peddled on this thread.

So you see, THR, you and your absurdities have been thoroughly dealt with by way of EVIDENCE; that is FACTS and the TRUTH has PROVED that you are WRONG on EVERYTHING you have contended

If you think using Caps Lock and repeating the same shit in 50 comments is 'evidence', then you're living in a fantasy world. But then, we already know you're living in a fantasy world, as you consider 5th generation inhabitants of a country to be non-citizens.

That you refuse to accept is just testament to your stupidity and fanaticism.

For fanatacis, you might want to take a look at your past 50 comments.

You first claim the former Immigration minister was lying and was a race-baiting hate monger; I then proved that not even African community leaders in Australia thought that, as this professor expressed

I claimed he was race-baiting. Like most politicians, he's not stupid enough to engage in black-bashing directly. He was found to have lied by both the police and his own department. Case closed.

You then denied the stataics existed / were true / said they were distorted / that ONE person aged 55-59 made them wrong (!!) but it has been firmly established that Africans are, as of 2007 eight times over represented in crime.

You wonder why I think you're inbred. You obviously don't understand things, even after they've been repeated. As we've seen, the Somalian population is so small that the stats get distorted. There are 115 Somalian offenders in the study I linked to. And yes, the one, single offender in the 55-59 age bracket was sufficient to make Somalians over-represented in that category.

As we've seen in the 2006 census, 1 in 5 people are born overseas, so all things being equal, we would expect that 1 in 5 crimes would be committed by an immigrant. That's not a PC conspiracy, it's the law of averages you moron. If we then correlate crimes committed with age cohorts and poverty (despite you denying that these are factors) then you'd pretty much account for all the crime stats you've cited.

THR said...

You also made bold claims about the Mufti of Australia not representing Muslims in Australia or having any credibility in their in eyes in relation to his justifications of rape.

You claim that because of the Mufti's notional position, he's respected and followed by every Sunni Muslim in the country. This is demonstrably false, as we've seen. His appointment was a pragmatic one, and he holds sway in about 3 mosques in Sydney's west. The rest of the Muslim community is embarrassed by him, and has repeatedly condemned him.

You then made claims that there was no PC agenda in all Western countries

Yes, and despite your trooferism, you haven't given a shred of evidence to the contrary. You claimed there was a global PC conspiracy to get Africans to infiltrate the West. Why this is the case, you haven't been able to explain. In reality, of course, 'PC' Australia still locks up asylum seekers, and Fortress Europe isn't much better.

So your claims that these countries are “safe” is rubbish; they used to be though. Equally as absurd are you claims that there is no pattern.

It's evident that you've got your figures from the usual crank right wing hate sites, like Gates of Vienna, etc. Maybe you should actually visit these countries. France, for instance, is very safe by and large, though the poorer disricts of Paris have the level of crime you'd expect anywhere else in the world. I'm sure you'd be terrified, Senile, of all those darkies waiting to jump out of the vineyards and attack poor defenceless white folk like yourself.

So there you have it. You're claims are entirely false. If you were in NY, you'd be claiming that immigration by Irish, Jews and Italians signified he end of the world. You're a proven crackpot who thinks that blacks are taking over, who claims to have served in the military but is scared of his own neighbourhood, who thinks 5th generation migrants are Untermenschen, who thinks that the East End is equivalent to a Sudanese refugee camp, and that Paris is equivalent to a civil war. In addition, you're an insufferably tedious fucker, and you'd be better suited to a BNP blog than here.

The Sentinel said...

THR,
Yet again, absolutely nothing of substance from you; yet again absolutely no evidence from you; yet again just more empty PC fantasy, canards and hot air.

As comprehensively proven, even your one “source” – a poxy blog – disagreed wholeheartedly with everything you contend and admits that figures Bolt gave are correct and that the Somalis (muslims) in Victoria has “a large problem” and are “dysfunctional.”

There is no need to waste my time proving what was already comprehensively proven – with an abundance of evidence - in my last post: You are WRONG on EVERYTHING you say.

Even your only real contribution - disgusting and perverted sexual taunts - have been massively outdone by your friend Daniel Hoffman-Gill on the latest post on this blog:


“da sentinel is an inbred daft racist cunt who was raised in a bog sucking his useless dad and uncles cocks and licking his mum and sisters cunt”


So let’s move away from the areas where you have already been trounced and move into new ones where you need to be beaten with the truth stick again.


“It's evident that you've got your figures from the usual crank right wing hate sites, like Gates of Vienna, etc”


All of the evidence I present, as everyone can see, comes from mainstream, independent, professional national and local newspapers that in turn get their figures from the authorities of that country.

Each of these papers and its journalist are bound by a code of conduct regulated by the press complaint commission of their region and they are all libel – even criminally so – if they were to print false figures and claim that the government released them.

So if you really don’t believe these figures, if you really think they have been made up you have three options:

1) Complain to the paper and their regions press complaints commission

2) Complain to the police about incitement to racial hatred

3) Sue

Unless you choose to put your money where your mouth is and do any of these and also share the reference numbers and correspondence with us – shut up you idiotic muppet.

(And this is why blogs are not credible or reliable source either, by the way you buffoon.)

But let’s get down to it:

The Sentinel said...

“Maybe you should actually visit these countries. France, for instance, is very safe”

I live an hour away from France mate; have you ever been there? Obviously not.

You see, there was a reason I brought up that mass attack on your police by the immigrants – Muslim Africans- in Melbourne and stated that the challenge to Australia, it people and its laws had already been laid down and lost.

"It [police] dropped charges against men arrested at a confrontation last December in which some 100 Africans surrounded 21 police and sent one to hospital with suspected cracked ribs.

Sen-Sgt Mario Benedetti, in charge of Moonee Ponds police station, says he suspects the charges were dropped because of the alleged offenders' race. Other police involved tell me the same, adding that the charges were dropped without their knowledge or consent."

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,24672971-25717,00.html


And that reason is that there is yet another distinct pattern in immigrant crime across western countries: The assault on the police as a way of asserting authority and dominance.


“Radical Muslims in France's housing estates are waging an undeclared "intifada" against the police, with violent clashes injuring an average of 14 officers each day.

As the interior ministry said that nearly 2,500 officers had been wounded this year, a police union declared that its members were "in a state of civil war" with Muslims in the most depressed "banlieue" estates which are heavily populated by unemployed youths of north African origin.

It said the situation was so grave that it had asked the government to provide police with armoured cars to protect officers in the estates, which are becoming no-go zones.

The number of attacks has risen by a third in two years. Police representatives told the newspaper Le Figaro that the "taboo" of attacking officers on patrol has been broken.

Instead, officers – especially those patrolling in pairs or small groups – faced attacks as soon as they tried to arrest locals.”

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1530659/Muslims-are-waging-civil-war-against-us-claims-police-union.html


And that is not just Paris but the immigrant – overwhelming Muslim – areas all over France; Rioting and organized attacks on the police daily and nightly – with an average of 14 police being injured a day and 2500 in a year. That is a massive, massive problem.

These are the types of incident they face:

The Sentinel said...

“In the suburb of Tremblay-en-France, department of Seine-Saint-Denis. This was the second time in a few weeks that police on patrol were drawn to a group of youths. Masked by their clothing they threw firecrackers and rocks at the police...

In the city of Evry, four or five large packs of firecrackers were stolen by a group of hooded individuals who broke into the fair grounds thanks to the inadequate number of guards. Agnès Moutet-Lamy, the spokesman for the Socialist mayor made light of the event: "That can always happen. There's nothing to worry about." However, Jean-Charles Béraud, an expert in pyrotechnics, stated that firecrackers "can become a monstrously dangerous weapon. A mortar can be propelled 120 meters and create an explosion 80 meters in diameter. It can kill someone. Even one large firecracker can rip apart a hand."

http://www.leparisien.fr/essonne-91/feux-d-artifice-une-nouvelle-arme-dans-les-cites-15-07-2009-580222.php


“Two helicopters pouring water on the fire and a fierce battle waged by the marine firemen were needed to bring the fire under control.

A day-care center was partially burned. A row of cypress trees bordering a nursery school went up in smoke.

One individual was arrested as he threw rockets on the marine firemen who had come to put out a trash can fire.

Fires were set in the four corners of one neighborhood, while trash cans and cars burned in others, notably with the help of Molotov cocktails.

While the firemen went on one call after the other, the police fell into what appears to be an ambush. Bullets were fired at them and diverse projectiles were thrown in their direction. One policeman was slightly injured by a rock. The anti-crime brigade arrested one individual in possession of a 22-caliber rifle.”

http://www.laprovence.com/articles/2009/07/15/865478-A-la-une-Des-incidents-et-des-incendies-volontaires.php


And when Sarkozy’s special adviser went out with a police patrol to see the situation for himself, he too was treated an ambush:


“[The police car] was stopped by a fence thrown across the road, then pelted with rocks by 40 people in Montfermeil (Seine-Saint-Denis). The police used their flashballs [flash grendades]. The attackers had not been aware of Guaino’s presence.”

http://www.france-info.com/spip.php?article312849&theme=9&sous_theme=11


Planned, organized and extremely violent ambushes on the police.

So how do the French government react?

They lie about the scope of the problem and issue instructions to government departments to refuse to release any more accurate or even any more figures at all to the media:


“Only the figures for the night of July 13-14 were published: "Some 500 vehicles" were burned, the worst ever recorded for the eve of the national holiday. Despite repeated requests to the Interior Ministry, and the DGPN [similar to the FBI], no figures were forthcoming for the night of July 14-15. These orders have been strictly applied. The different prefectures contacted by Le Monde refused to respond, citing "ministerial instructions." Regional news media reported the same problem. The daily La Provence issued an unofficial report that was much less favorable than 2008: 41 cars and a day-care center in Marseilles burned…”

http://www.lemonde.fr/cgi-bin/ACHATS/acheter.cgi?offre=ARCHIVES&type_item=ART_ARCH_30J&objet_id=1091629&clef=ARC-TRK-D_01


So that’s your absolutely ignorant and absurd rubbish about France being a “safe country” - and believe me, these are just a few examples– completely trounced along with your “no immigrant crime pattern” claims.

So THR, you ready to admit that you pulled your absurd statement out of your arse now?

I’ll bet not. I’ll bet you come up with even more fantastic crap with absolutely no evidence.

The Sentinel said...

So it is just France that this happens in?

Not even remotely.

Lets look Sweden’s experience in Malmo, especially Rosengård, with its huge immigrant – that is Muslim – population:


“After months of suffering through thrown rocks and threats directed at his squadron during numerous calls to the Rosengård neighbourhood in Malmö, local fire chief Henrik Persson said on Tuesday he is stepping down from his post…

Firefighters and police officers have long been subject to thrown rocks and threats on calls to the predominantly immigrant neighbourhood, with fire fighters working to introduce measures to make their jobs safer.

“At a recent meeting a police officer said we need to be ready to have Molotov cocktails thrown at us,” he said.”

http://www.thelocal.se/19130/20090428/


And of course, we find even the police cannot defend themselves
adequately against these attacks:


“The police have contracted a security firm to help with the surveillance and protection of the police station.

In connection with unrest in Rosengård the station has on repeated occasions been the target of fireworks, vandalism and stone-throwing youths.ion in the Malmö suburb of Rosengård.”

http://www.thelocal.se/16652/20081231/


At least a couple of the politicians recognized the real problem and tried to do something about it:

“A prominent Liberal Party (Folkpartiet) Riksdag member on Wednesday called for targeted curfews and more police in Malmö’s Rosengård neighbourhood just hours before a communal refuse facility in the area burned to the ground…

He added however that any curfew shouldn’t be general, but instead directed at young people known to have taken part in vandalism, rock throwing, and other threatening actions against police officers or fire fighters…”

http://www.thelocal.se/19306/20090507/


And like I have said if seeing is believing, then watch this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=diw5SneythM

And this

http://www.cbn.com/CBNnews/556299.aspx


Partial transcript of the above report:


“MALMO, Sweden -- A few years ago, the London Guardian newspaper called Sweden the most successful society the world has ever known.

But Sweden today is being transformed by a large influx of immigrants from the Middle East…

Massive immigration has made Malmö today one quarter Muslim, and stands to transform it into a Muslim majority city within just a few decades.

One of the most popular baby names is not Sven, but Mohammed. Pork has been taken off some school menus. Want to learn to drive? You can attend Malmö's own "Jihad Driving School."

But despite Malmö's usually placid appearance, this experiment in multiculturalism has not gone well. In the Rosengaard section of Malmö, a housing project made up primarily of immigrants, fire and emergency workers will no longer enter without police protection.

But Malmö has been so accommodating toward immigrant Muslims that a local Muslim politician, Adly Abu Hajar, has declared that "The best Islamic state is Sweden!"

The Sentinel said...

And then there is the same problem in Denmark, especially in the immigrant Muslim districts of Vollsmose

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vollsmose


“100 people tried to stop ambulance.

Live rounds fired at police in Vollsmose.

Live rounds were flying past local policemen in Vollsmose, while trying to assist colleges after a traffic incident.

The situation became nasty last night in the Vollsmose suburb Odense when a 19-year old BMW-driver tried to escape the police and then crashed his car. When the ambulance arrived at the scene, the mood was so nasty that some 100 bystanders tried to block the ambulance.

“Finally, the police had to get the driver out of the car and into a patrol car in order to drive him over to the ambulance,” says Chief Inspector Hans Frederiksen of the Funen Police to BT.

It escalated to vandalism, and around midnight four cars at the parking lot were set ablaze, including the wrecked car.

10 bullets fired at the police

When two policemen from the Vollsmose precinct arrived, ten shots were fired at them, possibly from an automatic rifle. The shots were fired from a green area some 50 meters away.

“One of our colleagues could actually see the muzzle fire and hear the rounds flying past. This means close proximity, and the shots were surely aimed at the policemen,” says the chief inspector.

Rounds located

This morning the police are present in force in order to investigate and find out who fired the rounds. Police dogs have found five cartridges.

Meanwhile the remains of cars set ablaze during the night are being removed. A total of six vehicles are completely incinerated and another one is totally wrecked.”

http://www.bt.dk/krimi/skud-mod-politiet-i-vollsmose


And this from Nørrebro, another immigrant – again Muslim – area.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N%C3%B8rrebro


“Employees of public institutions in the area of Copenhagen hardest hit by gangwar shootings are afraid of going to work and their facilities are to have new opening times.

“Due to the extensive use of firearms and insecurity of employees we will be closed from 6 p.m. on weekdays and all weekend,” says a sign on the doors of Blågårdens library and the sports hall 100 metres away. The Støberiet cultural centre is also to be closed at the same times…

In other developments in the ongoing crisis in the Nørrebro district, elderly residents have had to have their council-prepared meals-on-wheels delivered secretly and with police security due to threats issued against the company responsible for deliveries.

The council decided to stop delivering meals-on-wheels on Monday night after a driver of the Multitrans company which delivers the food was warned out of the area by armed gang members who see the Nørrebro district as their exclusive turf.”

http://politiken.dk/newsinenglish/article661155.ece

The Sentinel said...

And last week we saw the same situation in England where hundreds of Muslims in a Muslim area of Luton attacked the police; the police had actually been deployed to PROTECT these people from what turned out to be a mythical situation, but instead these people attack them.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6JIQBllf1pk&feature=related


And one more example from England:


"Police officers are on high-alert after linking the daylight town centre mob attack on two constables to one of Croydon's biggest criminal gangs.

“At the weekend, officers were warned for their safety as intelligence sources claimed Don't Say Nothing (DSN) gang members were upset at recent police activity and were planning to retaliate.

The two officers were hospitalised with bite injuries and bruising last Wednesday after a 30-strong mob attacked them in broad daylight in the town centre.

The officers saw a teenage girl drop a fast food wrapper from a nearby takeaway and asked her to pick it up. She did so, but in a show of defiance, dropped it on the ground again.

When the officers asked her again to pick up the rubbish her friend became aggressive towards them and the officers had to call for back-up after getting quickly surrounded by an angry crowd of mostly youths.

Witnesses described the incident. Holly Charles, 16, a shop worker, said:

"A girl was held down by an officer. The men jumped on that officer, hit and punched him to try to get him off her. The other officer pulled out a baton and pepper spray and sprayed the girl. He waved the baton around to stop the mob from getting closer.

"I thought someone was going to get seriously hurt. It was really scary. The police officers were not in control of either the schoolgirl or the men."

Following the incident, Croydon Council told its own private police force, the Neighbourhood Enforcement Officers (NEOs), by email, not to tackle teenagers for fear of similar attacks.”

http://www.croydonguardian.co.uk/news/2406554.police_attack_linked_to_notorious_gang/


Who are the DSN?

“Don’t Say Nothing gang…self-styled general of the gang Joland Giwa is due to be deported from the UK back to his native Sierra Leone after serving a year in prison for robbery.”

http://www.croydonguardian.co.uk/news/4441627.Don_t_Say_Nothing_gang_in_disarray_after_top_names_jailed/


Can you see a pattern here now, muppet?

And can you see how absolutely ludicrous your statement: “So there you have it. You're claims are entirely false.” – based on nothing other then what you pulled out of your arse – really is?


What a lying, demented, deluded and ignorant fuckwit you are.

THR said...

Your claims remain entirely false, Senile.

I've been to France twice, and yes, it's perfectly safe. Perhaps we can arrange for somebody to hold your hand if you ever go there.

Your tedious fucking habit of reciting anecdotes on Muslim crime is idiotic. I can just as easily find several thousand similar article involving Anglo-Saxon criminals. Anecdotes prove nothing, but you obviously don't understand that.

The case you cite from Melbourne has been reported in a very dubious fashion. One police officer 'suspects' that the charges were dropped on racial grounds. Police don't drop any iother charges on racial grounds, and there are no explanations as to why it would have happened here. I remember the incident in question, and I'd bet that the reason charges were dropped is due to police being at fault.

But by all means, Senile, remain hiding under your bed, terrified of the Ay-rabs. You're a pathetic girly-man, with a personality like a steaming turd. You've probably been rejected by innumerable African/Muslim girls, hence your irrational fear and hatred.

The Sentinel said...

“Your claims remain entirely false, Senile.”


You are great entertainment THR; you really are.

The boy in the bubble. The ultimate proper dishonest PC religious zealot.

You would have been in your element in the dark ages as a witch finder general, seeking all heresy to your chosen religion.

But, the truth is, once again, all of your absurd contentions have been thoroughly trounced in my last post as anyone can see.


“I've been to France twice, and yes, it's perfectly safe. Perhaps we can arrange for somebody to hold your hand if you ever go there.”

In indigenous French areas yes. In immigrant areas, as fully evidenced, no.

Not even the police are safe. In fact they are attacked daily, and liken it to a civil war.

And I have been to France more times then you have had showers; on second thoughts that probably not the best analogy...


“Your tedious fucking habit of reciting anecdotes on Muslim crime is idiotic.”

Translation: My consistent habit of easily proving what an out of reality PC fantasist you are - and what a fantastic ignorant liar you – is really enraging you.


“I can just as easily find several thousand similar article involving Anglo-Saxon criminals.”

Another bold claim! This should be good entertainment value!

Go on then gobshite, lets see just a few of these thousands of articles that prove that Anglo-Saxons have emigrated on masses to foreign cities and had a massive disproportionate effect on the crime rate; quadrupled the rape rate in 20 years; turned whole areas of these cities into no-go zones and attack and ambush the police with gunfire, rockets, petrol bombs and rocks as routine as well as the fire and ambulance services.

In fact, let’s see just one…


“Anecdotes prove nothing, but you obviously don't understand that.”

And clearly you don’t understand that these many pieces of evidence are not “anecdotes”; they are mostly reports of official figures along with actual events.


“The case you cite from Melbourne has been reported in a very dubious fashion.”


Well you know what to do then don’t you? I gave you all your options before:

1) Complain to the paper and their regions press complaints commission

2) Complain to the police about incitement to racial hatred

3) Sue

In fact, while you are at why haven’t you done this already? You have the journalists name, the parent media company and even the police source.

And why stop there? Why haven’t you taken these steps in all of the evidence presented here that you claim are lies?

I’ll tell you why: Because the only charges that would be laid would be against you for wasting police time and most likely you’d sectioned too.

The Sentinel said...

“Police don't drop any iother charges on racial grounds”

I couldn’t agree more. Very one sided isn’t it?

“SENIOR police have been accused of going soft on African youths after several officers were attacked.

Riot charges were dropped because of sensitivity over their race, a senior officer claimed.

Sen-Sgt Phil Pearson, a police union executive, is pushing for fresh charges over the violence in which his colleague and friend, Sen-Sgt Mario Benedetti, was injured.

"This is a perversion of the course of justice," he said.

"This happened because they were Africans and to maintain community harmony, but they have done the wrong thing.

"If they were white Australian males it would have proceeded to court."

Last November's violence began when a rock was allegedly thrown at a passing police van.”

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,24683224-661,00.html


“and there are no explanations as to why it would have happened here”

Well that complete bullshit and yet again you know it.

Here is the official explanation:

“Assistant Commissioner Tim Cartwright, senior officer for the region, said last night the force stood by the decision to drop the charges.

He denied race was a factor.

Mr Cartwright said there had not been any clashes in the 12 months since the violence.

"Things are looking much better, and we have a much safer and healthier community," he said."


http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,24683224-661,00.html


Clearly it was dropped out of fear to prevent further trouble with these immigrants, not out of judicial concern.


“I'd bet that the reason charges were dropped is due to police being at fault”

I should have thought of that; the police love to be surrounded, attacked and hospitalized; they look for it; and then, perversely when they get it, even when outnumbered 4 to 1 they don’t fire a single shot. Twisted Bastards.

Come to think of it that would explain why them two unarmed British cops got surrounded by 30 immigrant thugs and hospitalized, they weren’t just doing their job – they love provoking trouble that gets them outnumbered 15 to 1.

And the French, Danish and Swedish police too, they just love getting ambushed, shot at, rockets, petrol bombs and rocks chucked at them. The French love it so much they get 2500 police wounded every year goading immigrants.

Not sure yet what the fire and ambulance crews do to get attacked as well, but it must be their own fault too, no?

And even the Germans are joining in on it:


“The incidents are piling up, and the attacks are becoming increasingly brutal. Police officers on their many missions have to fear for their lives.

[Bremen-Osterholz] In the past year alone there were over 350 attacks on police and judicial officials. This is an upward trend…
Who are the perpetrators? A police spokesman: “Often these are Germans with an immigrant background.”

http://www.bild.de/BILD/regional/bremen/aktuell/2009/03/27/polizei-statistik/gewalt-gegen-polizisten-in-bremen-nimmt-zu.html


In fact, you can see just how much fun they are having with it in this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7iMRGRYncbo


And this news report shows even more fun as they enjoy being attacked:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rsXDk2PSsJ8&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fuser%2Fvladtepesblogdotcom&feature=player_profilepage


“terrified of the Ay-rabs…hence your irrational fear and hatred.”

There’s neither fear nor hatred here matey. Nor any “wacism.”


In fact you are the one full of hate, spite and a perverted imagination full of incest, pedophile and bestiality.

The truth is these are all facts, and there is a serious, massive problem that is getting worse all the time. Pretending there isn’t will only make it much, much worse.

It needs a reasonable and workable political solution, because if one is not forthcoming, history tells us what the alternative is…

Anonymous said...

verbosity does not equal being right

The Sentinel said...

“anonymous”

Why not just post under your real ID?

What are you so afraid of?

And evidence proves right and the truth, and there is plenty of that in my comments whereas there is none in the other comments.

What evidence to the contrary do you have?

In fact I have posted over 40 pieces of independent evidence, which is just a fraction of what I could have posted; there is an abundence of it.

In fact, unbeknown to probably most outside of Sweden – and why is that?- and in common with the regular trouble in the Muslim enclave of Rosengård in Malmö I have fully proved above, there has been nonstop rioting, arson and attacks on the police and fire crews within the Muslim area of Backa, Gothenburg since August 10th, ostensibly sparked when the police routinely responded to an incident involving a suspect with a firearm.

As well as the obligatory stone throwing at police and arson attacks, the obligatory attacks on the fire crews that are called to put out the fires have taken place.

In common with the patterns of attack like this in many other European that I have fully evidenced in previous comments, the attacks are planned ambushes; and not just on the police – but on fire crews and ambulances too.

In one incident that is being treated as attempted murder in the current rioting in Gothenburg, a 5.7 kilo slab was dropped from a foot bridge onto a fire trucks windshield injuring the driver and another fire crew member.


http://www.gp.se/gp/jsp/Crosslink.jsp?d=113&a=515650&ref=puff

http://www.gp.se/gp/jsp/Crosslink.jsp?d=113&a=515652&ref=puff

http://www.gp.se/gp/jsp/Crosslink.jsp?d=113&a=514261


As already fully evidenced in previous comments, this kind of trouble and attacks on the fire crews doing their jobs – most often putting out deliberately set fires by this trouble – are prevalent in Rosengård, Malmö and the fire chief recently quit in disgust that his crews were not adequately protected:


“After months of suffering through thrown rocks and threats directed at his squadron during numerous calls to the Rosengård neighbourhood in Malmö, local fire chief Henrik Persson said on Tuesday he is stepping down from his post…

Firefighters and police officers have long been subject to thrown rocks and threats on calls to the predominantly immigrant neighbourhood, with fire fighters working to introduce measures to make their jobs safer.

“At a recent meeting a police officer said we need to be ready to have Molotov cocktails thrown at us,” he said.”

http://www.thelocal.se/19130/20090428/


We find that some action has at least been forth coming:


“Firemen in Rosengård are forced to acquire helmets

“One has to weigh the risk of a fire spreading to the risks for our personnel”

Rosengård firemen are forced to wear helmets with visors and borrow military bullet-proof vests. “We have reinforced our cars, but they have suffered substantial damage anyway.”

“Every day we have an alarm from Rosengård, and we never know what will happen. We want the police in place beforehand. If there’s no risk of the fire spreading, we often don’t go there at all…”

“Many fires are set just to get us there. Firemen from Jägersro fire station are now equipped with special helmets that protect the face and neck. Last winter, when it was the worst, we were forced to borrow bullet-proof vests from the military.”

One senior colleague has quit the force, as he did not feel he could guarantee his men’s safety. Several others have asked to be transferred to service elsewhere.”

http://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/article5758228.ab


Firemen, in what was one of the worlds safest countries now have to wear special helmets to protect themselves from rocks and other missiles and have to borrow bullet proof vests to do their job – which frequently includes being ambushed.

Tragic.

The Pagan Temple said...

Sentinel-

It might be a blessing in disguise, if it causes the majority population of Sweden-and England, and all other European countries-to eventually rise up and demand action, or else. It could get really ugly.

These Muslims might not have a real good grasp of who they are messing with. Don't take offense at this, but let's face it, with Europe you are dealing with a continent that, prior to the end of World War II, you would be hard pressed to find as much as a twenty year period where some country somewhere-and in most cases several of them-were not engaged in violent, blood-curdling raging war against another country-and again, in many cases several of them.

There's an old saying, you can only keep the lid on a boiling kettle of beans for so long before it blows up in your face.

When, and if, that day comes, I will cheer with what many might consider fiendish delight.

Scottish Trust Deeds said...

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Anonymous said...

i hate whites

The Sentinel said...

“i hate whites”

Well that’s pretty obvious anonymous coward / Hoffmann-gill.

And further to all the reams of example already posted here, on it goes; as Sweden’s Gothenburg eases into its 4th week of Muslim immigrant rioting…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kK1jfVdDeiY&feature=player_embedded#t=26


Belgium settles into its second night of the latest immigrant Muslim rioting…

“Police in the Belgian capital Brussels have arrested 43 people following a second night of civil unrest…

The area has a large population of North African immigrants and the youth was wanted by the authorities for taunting officers on the beat during Ramadan.

Police came under attack from stones and Molotov cocktails and cars in the area were torched. “

http://www.euronews.net/2009/09/19/second-night-of-riots-in-brussels-43-arrested/


As well as the recent ones in England too:

“There was further trouble when a group of around 250 Asian youths, throwing rocks and sticks and pushing a wheelie bin, later tried to charge officers.

Sky News Online’s Dan Ashby, who was filming at the scene, said: “Around 250 teenagers charged at police several times through the evening.“They threw flares and rocks - one of which smashed the window of a police van.

“They tried to use a wheelie bin as a battering ram, but enough of the protestors stopped them before they could hit the police line.”

Superintendent Julia Pendry, said: “Officers came under attack from bricks and bottles and we had to deploy our staff in protective equipment a number of times.

“What played out on the streets of Harrow today is completely unacceptable to everyone.”

http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/UK-News/Anti-Fascist-Protesters-And-Right-Wingers-Clash-With-Metropolitan-Police-Near-London-Mosque/Article/200909215380167


And here you can see the Muslims in Harrow working themselves up for that riot:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A3VOh6Z-wTg&feature=player_embedded

Just a couple of weeks before we had this:

“Police attacked by Bury Park mob: A mob of 200 youngsters from Luton’s Asian community defied a ban on mass public gatherings on Sunday to attack policemen drafted in to protect them from far-right protestors.

“There has been extensive public consultation and work behind the scenes to ensure Luton was not the chosen venue for any kind of march or protest but it would seem that for no apparent reason disorder has broken out in Bury Park.”

http://www.lutontoday.co.uk/lut-news/Police-attacked-by-Bury-Park.5602171.jp
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rbAdoD9LnQ8

All in all, some really great “cultural enrichment”, some really great “celebrations of diversity”


The lid is starting to come off, and so are the wheels…

Scottish Trust Deeds said...

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The Sentinel said...

The above "Scottish Trust Deeds" is another of hoffman-gills sock puppets and another example of his twisted, warped perverted cowardly games - this time faking spam.

What a sick little coward you are!!!

The Sentinel said...

“i hate whites”

Well that’s pretty obvious anonymous coward / Hoffmann-gill.

And further to all the reams of example already posted here, on it goes; as Sweden’s Gothenburg eases into its 4th week of Muslim immigrant rioting…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kK1jfVdDeiY&feature=player_embedded#t=26


Belgium settles into its second night of the latest immigrant Muslim rioting…

“Police in the Belgian capital Brussels have arrested 43 people following a second night of civil unrest…

The area has a large population of North African immigrants and the youth was wanted by the authorities for taunting officers on the beat during Ramadan.

Police came under attack from stones and Molotov cocktails and cars in the area were torched. “

http://www.euronews.net/2009/09/19/second-night-of-riots-in-brussels-43-arrested/


As well as the recent ones in England too:

“There was further trouble when a group of around 250 Asian youths, throwing rocks and sticks and pushing a wheelie bin, later tried to charge officers.

Sky News Online’s Dan Ashby, who was filming at the scene, said: “Around 250 teenagers charged at police several times through the evening.“They threw flares and rocks - one of which smashed the window of a police van.

“They tried to use a wheelie bin as a battering ram, but enough of the protestors stopped them before they could hit the police line.”

Superintendent Julia Pendry, said: “Officers came under attack from bricks and bottles and we had to deploy our staff in protective equipment a number of times.

“What played out on the streets of Harrow today is completely unacceptable to everyone.”

http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/UK-News/Anti-Fascist-Protesters-And-Right-Wingers-Clash-With-Metropolitan-Police-Near-London-Mosque/Article/200909215380167


And here you can see the Muslims in Harrow working themselves up for that riot:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A3VOh6Z-wTg&feature=player_embedded

Just a couple of weeks before we had this:

“Police attacked by Bury Park mob: A mob of 200 youngsters from Luton’s Asian community defied a ban on mass public gatherings on Sunday to attack policemen drafted in to protect them from far-right protestors.

“There has been extensive public consultation and work behind the scenes to ensure Luton was not the chosen venue for any kind of march or protest but it would seem that for no apparent reason disorder has broken out in Bury Park.”

http://www.lutontoday.co.uk/lut-news/Police-attacked-by-Bury-Park.5602171.jp
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rbAdoD9LnQ8

All in all, some really great “cultural enrichment”, some really great “celebrations of diversity”


The lid is starting to come off, and so are the wheels…

Anonymous said...

i hate whites

Anonymous said...

no one is reading this

The Sentinel said...

And here he is again: Another fellow troll of Gert's dimension: daniel hoffman-gill - aka "anonymous" and attempted ID spoofer.

And here is just one of the latest reactions to his pathological hate trolling - flying the nasty, vindictive and ignorant PC flag so proudly as usual - on just the latest blog he has decided to hate troll on and fresh from just yesterday; under his own name strangely, after bizarrely being too cowardly to do it in his own name here - or could it because with the rules he insisted on yet cannot even remotely keep within himself?!!



"Owners and monitors of this site.

Please read the comments of Hoffmann -Gill # 36.

This person has been thrown off from blogs because of hate AND perversion.
Sunny..you write that this is all about debate.

Debate is great, it brings understanding.
However, Hoffmmann-Gill breeds hate and his language is vulgar..

Please consider following the rules you set forth as it is good for all to learn from one another.

This man is a perverted, hateful distraction. His words should not be printed.
This is to be a Liberal site, but this person..what ever he is, makes anyone who is a liberal look badly..very badly.

He is a poor pathetic soul who needs help quite badly. Why give him a forum to speak on.
Trust me, you will find him elsewhere as well, and he is disgusting. He has been shut off many times and for good reason.

Please take one moment and look him up…it is then your call.

Colleen"

http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/2009/09/21/rupert-murdoch-and-fox-news-imperialism/

steverix said...

no one is feeling this

buy meds

The Sentinel said...

and so we have another hoffmann-gill hate troll...

Anonymous said...

3 lions on my shirt!

jules rimet's still dreaming!

the sentinel is a cunt!

and he likes to argue!

Scottish Trust Deeds said...

It is a very informative post you got there,about Scottish Trust Deeds. I am sure it will help a lot of people who are seeking help on deeds. Looking forward to see more like these from you.

The Sentinel said...

Read and reflect hoffman-gill coward:


"Owners and monitors of this site.

Please read the comments of Hoffmann -Gill # 36.

This person has been thrown off from blogs because of hate AND perversion.

Sunny..you write that this is all about debate.

Debate is great, it brings understanding.
However, Hoffmmann-Gill breeds hate and his language is vulgar..

Please consider following the rules you set forth as it is good for all to learn from one another.

This man is a perverted, hateful distraction. His words should not be printed.

This is to be a Liberal site, but this person..what ever he is, makes anyone who is a liberal look badly..very badly.

He is a poor pathetic soul who needs help quite badly. Why give him a forum to speak on.

Trust me, you will find him elsewhere as well, and he is disgusting. He has been shut off many times and for good reason.

Please take one moment and look him up…it is then your call.

Colleen"

http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/2009/09/21/rupert-murdoch-and-fox-news-imperialism/

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