Monday, June 09, 2008

Chavez Urges FARC to Lay Down Arms

From Aljazeera English
06/08/2008


Hugo Chavez, the Venezuelan president, has called on Colombian rebels to lay down their weapons, free all their hostages and put an end to a decades-long armed struggle against the Bogota government.

He said efforts by the Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia (FARC) to overthrow Colombia's democratically elected government are unjustified.
"The guerrilla war is history," Chavez said during his weekly television and radio programme on Sunday.

Relations between Chavez and Alvaro Uribe, his Colombian counterpart, have been strained due to Colombia's allegations that Chavez could be supporting FARC. Chavez denies supporting FARC, saying his contacts with the group are aimed at securing the release of its hostages.

FARC holds hundreds of captured security personnel as well as dozens of hostages who it hopes to swap for its own imprisoned fighters.

Plea to Cano

Chavez specifically called on the new Farc leader to release all prisoners held by the group in jungle camps.

FARC confirmed last month that Manuel Marulanda, their longtime leader and founder, had died and been succeeded by Alfonso Cano.

"The time has come for the Farc to release everyone ... It would be a grand humanitarian gesture and unconditional," Chavez said.

"This is my message for you, Cano: 'Come on, let all these people go.' There are old folk, women, sick people, soldiers who have been prisoners in the mountain for ten years."

Western countries such as France have pushed for regional diplomacy to free dozens of hostages, who include Ingrid Betancourt, the French-Colombian politician.

Colombian officials say FARC is at its weakest point in years due to the deaths of several senior members as well as high-profile defections and battlefield losses.

Law Revoked

Chavez's appeal to FARC came a day after he revoked a law decreed last month creating four spy agencies and a Cuban-style national informants' network.

It had sparked outrage among opposition members and human rights groups.

The law, which the government said was needed to block US interference in Venezuelan affairs, made it a crime to refuse to co-operate with intelligence agencies and to publish information deemed "secret or confidential".

The intelligence and counter-intelligence law was approved in the end of May, but has now been temporarily declared null and will be modified to correct "some mistakes".
RENEGADE EYE

52 comments:

Daniel Hoffmann-Gill said...

I wonder if the FARC will listen or care?

They've been ignoring the wishes of the people for so long now can Chavez's voice make any difference.

Hope so.

Larry Gambone said...

For FARC to realistically lay down arms there has to be guarantees that death squads will not murder people. An attempt was made to come above ground about 12 years ago. The result; 3000 people murdered by the narcotrafficante death squads. Since the government is run by such, I don't see much hope in the Chavez demand. Nor do I think the Gringos want a peaceful resolution. If things normalized in Columbia the left might well come to power through elections like elsewhere in Latin America and this would be a set-back for the Gringos who need a terrorist-run Columbia as its stalking horse.

jams o donnell said...

FARC won't win through violence. It may be more successful politically. Look at Ireland.

Martin McGuinness and Sinn Fein in Norther Ireland are a case in point

sonia said...

Interesting. Chavez is retreating on two very important points. Three months ago, Chavez was sending warplanes and moving 10 battalions to the border with Columbia, almost starting a war to defend FARC from Columbian's across-the-border raids. Now he is telling FARC to lay down their arms. More importantly, Chavez is also retreating on his plans to create a police state. Crucially, opposition to his plans to create a Venezuelan KGB is coming not only from his opponents, but also from his supporters.

Phil BC said...

Chavez wants to set up a police state? What a load of hokum. Where did you hear this, Fox News?

Renegade Eye said...

Sonia: Chavez isn't retreating on anything. He never supported the FARC. They are actually a detriment to him. Venezuela and Colombia are talking about a pipeline through FARC territory.

1)Chavez was defending Ecuador, part of the Bolivarian movement and the negotiation process for the hostages, not FARC.

2)That shows the democratic nature of Venezuela.

Daniel: FARC is screwed. I spoke to Venezuelan who tell me, the hostages are all they have to save them from extinction.

Larry: I agree. Security will have to be negotiated. Chavez has the world audience.

Jams: I have to think about the Ireland analogy.

Phil: Except on cultural issues, Fox is to Sonia's left.

Crooked said...

"Three months ago, Chavez was sending warplanes and moving 10 battalions to the border with Columbia, almost starting a war to defend FARC from Columbian's across-the-border raids."

Well that's a creative use of your imagination or more bluntly put a load of bullshit. Calling troops to the border had nothing to do with protecting the FARC (certainly “protecting” the FARC would have involved crossing the border). It was a show of force to let Columbia know Venezuela would not tolerate similar incursions across their border, as was the case in Ecuador. Almost starting a war? Not unless you think Columbia was considering crossing the border in order to start one. Plenty of other Latin American nations condemned Columbia breach of Ecuador’s sovereignty.

Crooked said...

I think there is little chance of the FARC disarming at this point. What guarantee do they have the Columbian government won’t annihilate them or send paramilitaries to do the dirty work. The Columbian government historically has not shown themselves to be trustworthy. It would be nice if there could be peace, unfortunately violence seems to be very much a part of Columbian politics. Does anyone really believe that if the FARC laid down their weapons and tried to be a legitimate part of the political process that they wouldn’t be immediately targeted for assassination?

markin said...

Ren- Thanks for Alan Woods article on May 1968. When I was doing my commentary I was thinking that I needed to do a quick little review of those events.And presto there you sent the Woods piece. I will read it and do a comment.

I still haven't got a chance to a do a comment on his Tet piece (although I have read it). So many events occurred in 1968 worthy of comment that I am facing a backlog-fortunately in the summer I can catch up.

By the way what is the technology on being able to put a link( in this case to Alan Woods) right on your comment- any help there would be appreciated. I could really use that knowledge for a Defend the Cuban Five link. Markin.

FJ said...

Of course, what Chavez says and what he does are two completely INDEPENDENT things...

BOGOTA, June 7 (Reuters) - Colombia arrested a Venezuelan national guard officer who authorities said was carrying 40,000 AK-47 assault rifle cartridges to Marxist rebels, a charge that could increase already high tensions between the countries.

The man, identified as Manuel Agudo, was captured on Friday in the southern Colombian province of Vichada, near the Venezuelan border along with another Venezuelan and two Colombians, Attorney General Mario Iguaran said.

Crooked said...

FJ even if this is true there is still no indication that Chavez is sponsoring the FARC. Weapons are sold from neighboring countries all the time to the FARC, source nations have included Peru, Brazil and Ecuador, however I doubt the deals were sanctioned by these governments. Chavez has absolutely nothing to gain by supporting FARC and a lot to lose. Chavez supplying FARC with weapons makes no sense.

roman said...

Larry,

Nor do I think the Gringos want a peaceful resolution.... the Gringos who need a terrorist-run Columbia as its stalking horse.

This sounds like paranoid leftist propaganda all the way from the 1950's. Please update your terminology to fit current facts. It's a WORLD-wide economy with players from both right and left now... "Gringos" play only a bit part in your fantastically exagerated conspiracy theories.
Unless I'm mistaken, is'nt the term "gringo" considered a racist term nowadays?

Renegade Eye said...

FJ: At your blog, you are constantly reprinting articles about crime coming from Venezuelan, than assume as a given, that Chavez is involved.

Crooked is correct that Chavez gains nothing supporting the FARC. Chavez comes from the military. He knows that ragtag gang in the jungle, can't lead a revolution.

All of Chavez's important advisors dislike the FARC including Castro.

FJ said...

no indication that Chavez is sponsoring the FARC. Except captured records from computers, captured Venezuelan military people, captured phrases by Venezuelan officials to FARC commando's during prisoner exchanges, FARC commandos being treated in Venezuelan hospitals, an infinite number of statements by Chavez arguing for official "belligerent" recognition of FARC, and statements by FARC commanders that they are supporting the same "Bolivarian Revolution" that Hugo's always going on about.

We're not blind or stupid. If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, gets caught by ornithologists and biologists and identified as a duck, THEN ITS A DUCK!

Crooked said...

“Except captured records from computers, captured Venezuelan military people.”

Nothing on the “captured” computers substantiates that Chavez had any involvement and neither does the fact that members of the military sold weapons to the FARC to make a quick buck. Again other nations have had weapons sold out of their countries to the FARC, sometimes with cooperation of members of the military. This reminds me of the “evidence” the US government presented before invading Iraq.

Crooked said...

Additionally FJ

You are aware that Interpol did not (and could not) confirm that these “captured” computers were indeed from the FARC right?

FJ said...

crooked,

LOL! No? But their authenticity WAS verified by US and many other international experts. I could give a sh*t about "Interpol".

And the contents were real alright. Dirty bombs. Drug deals. Money transfers. Hugo was CAUGHT red handed... and now that FARC is about to get COMPLETELY OBLITERATED, Hugo's decided to "rhetorically" change sides. How convenient for him.

Deliver a message to Hugo from the Right for me. He'd better get his Bolivarian forces out of Ecuador, Peru, Bolivia, Nicaragua, and Guyana ASAP. Because Southern Command, the Fourth Fleet and SOCOM are coming after him.

Crooked said...

"But their authenticity WAS verified by US and many other international experts"

FJ, Interpol are those international experts you are talking about. They only verified that files were not altered, NOT that the computers came from the FARC. We only have the Columbian government’s word on that.

Additionally the information was only between FARC members. No communications with the Venezuelan government were found.

Adam Isaacson, of the Center for International Policy in Washington DC, makes the point that, "…the documents in question are communications between guerrilla leaders. Several offer accounts of meetings with officials of the Venezuelan government, some of them high-ranking. No documents or writings from the Venezuelans themselves appear; the FARC communications only reflect the guerrillas’ version of events."
Source

FL it is about time you start providing sources for your claims. Show me this evidence. I’m willing to look at it. If Venezuela were providing aid to the FARC this would be a bad thing and IMO a huge mistake but no different than the US sponsoring the Columbian government who has routinely sponsored terrorism against their own population.

Crooked said...

“He'd better get his Bolivarian forces out of Ecuador, Peru, Bolivia, Nicaragua, and Guyana ASAP. Because Southern Command, the Fourth Fleet and SOCOM are coming after him.”

What forces?

And good luck convincing the US population that we should start yet another war. Even so if it came to guerilla warfare the US would only get their ass handed to them like what's happening in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Larry Gambone said...

No point in arguing with the Farmer, Crooked, he makes it up as he goes along. Don't look for a rational argument from these reactionaries. Sonia said it, "Fuck rationalism!"

Renegade Eye said...

Crooked: Thank you for taking part in the discussion. I agree with your points.

Larry: I think the rightists should have to defend their views vigorously.

FJ keeps us updated on what the opposition is thinking.

Roman: I wouldn't use the word Gringo. Yankees is too 1960. I use the oligarchy or the opposition.

Farmer: FARC was always useless to Chavez.
FARC's program doesn't go beyond agrarian reform. That is not a program that can transform a modern society. Chavez knows and always knew, that revolution has to be led by the urban sector to work. FARC can only play an auxillary role to real revolutionaries. They have nothing to offer Hugo Chavez, and never did.

Chavez can't support a guerilla movement, without urban support. That is what FARC is. Chavez is a military man and is well read.

FJ said...

Chavez is a military man and is well read.

...and I'm not? LOL!

FJ said...

What forces?

The only support that the Spartans lent the Syracusan's during the Poloponnesian War were the services of two generals. They subsequently jointly defeated two Athenian invasion armies and forced the capitulation of Athens to the oligarchs.

FJ said...

"Fuck rationalism!"

When the other guy is screwing your wife but you haven't caught them flagrante delicto, then he brags about it to your freinds and then to your face, do you kick his ass or wait till your 100% certain he's screwing her? The standard is "reasonable doubt" NOT absolute certainty. And as far as Hugo's case is concerned, he unrepentently crossed that threshold long, LONG ago.

FJ said...

You are aware that Interpol did not (and could not) confirm that these “captured” computers were indeed from the FARC right?

And you are aware that a FARC camp in Ecuador WAS ACTUALLY attacked and a number of notorious FARC leaders killed (confirmed by Ecuador). And you do realize that the Columbian military would NOT have attacked across the border without the fore-knowledge of American military advisors who would insist upon a follow up ground operation specifically to search for and gather and intelligence information... which ACTUALLY did occur, correct? They didn't just "bomb" the FARC camp from the air. The video's of that search are on YouTube. I suggest you watch them.

FJ said...

No "interpol" could not confirm that the computers they examined came from the FARC Camp. But US military intelligence can and did.

FJ said...

...and since you "boys" don't think the Right is being "rational" about this, I suggest you begin to examine the basis and foundation of your own belief that Hugo Chavez is NOT involved in undermining the political stability of the region and providing military and financial support to regional rebel forces.

FJ said...

Something more than patently absurd statements like "Chavez has absolutely nothing to gain by supporting FARC" or "He never supported the FARC" or "FARC was always useless to Chavez.
FARC's program doesn't go beyond agrarian reform."

Hugo was a military man. So was I. Perhaps we BOTH know a bit more on the subject of war then a couple of armchair urban guerillas.

FJ said...

I think we all know what a couple of Russian equivalent "Stinger's" could do to change the military dynamic in Columbia for FARC. Especially if their backs were pressed up against the wall.

FJ said...

It has now been confirmed from Lot #'s that the ammunition being supplied to FARC by the captured Venezuelans was sold by the Russians to Venezuelans.

2+2 still equals 4.

FJ said...

Still quackin' like a duck...

Crooked said...

"And you are aware that a FARC camp in Ecuador WAS ACTUALLY attacked and a number of notorious FARC leaders killed (confirmed by Ecuador)."

Yes and ...

"And you do realize that the Columbian military would NOT have attacked across the border without the fore-knowledge of American military advisors who would insist upon a follow up ground operation specifically to search for and gather and intelligence information... which ACTUALLY did ocur, correct?"

So they were taking orders from the US? What difference does the make?

"No "interpol" could not confirm that the computers they examined came from the FARC Camp. But US military intelligence can and did."

You are so full of shit. No they didn’t. Which is why you haven’t sourced it. I even tried to find the source for you. If this did happen no one is reporting it. Even if the computers are atthentic again there is no evidence to link Chavez to supporting the FARC, nor have you provided any. People like you are their own worst enemy. Larry is right, I’m not going to argue with some one who is bat shit crazy.

Larry Gambone said...

"FARC's program doesn't go beyond agrarian reform. That is not a program that can transform a modern society... FARC can only play an auxillary role to real revolutionaries..."

Well said Ren. they are a peasant guerrilla group, having grown out of a small group of farmers who sought to protect themselves from the private armies of the Columbian Civil War. As such, their politics are peasant populism, which is important in a country where there are peasants, but plainly not enough in today's world where there is also a large working class.In order to overthrow the oligarchy they will have to unite with other revolutionaries and other sectors of the population. This will mean that they will, in many areas, have to play a subordinate role to working class, urban revolutionaries.

FJ said...

Bat sh*t crazy AND dead on RIGHT! So there IS nothing to argue about.

FARC...having grown out of a small group of protection racketeers, murderers, kidnappers and extortionists who terrorized the local population and growers to the point of their having to protect themselves with private armies from the greedy bandits who started the longest and bloodiest Civil War in South American history.

FJ said...

How many "hostages for money" is FARC currently holding? 700?

You mean, all people have to do is pay FARC ransom money and the hundreds of innocent victims will be let go? Yep!

How political... kinda in the same sense that Al Capone was political.

Renegade Eye said...

FJ: We've explained FARC lacks a revolutionary program. It has a weak political base. In addition it's not tied to the urban proletariat, the only force that can transform society. Everything we said, is available to Hugo Chavez. Hugo enjoys reading on the right Heinz Dieterich on the left Alan Woods. Both his favorite theoreticians tell him FARC is a losing path. Chavez himself said guerilla warfare is obsolete.

FARC's rotten tactics come from lack of program and theory. They even misread the Chinese Revolution. China atleast had Soviet arms.

You are the only one that says FARC is a force that has influence anywhere.

Foxessa said...

It's always dislocating, to read people's so decided opinions about countries they've never visited and who don't speak the language(s) either. Or able to dance the dances.

Primary rule: never believe anything anybody says about anywhere who doesn't speak the language and doesn't know how to dance the dances.

There are exceptions though, now and again. Fidel doesn't dance ... maybe the only Cuban in history who doesn't and doesn't care about music.

Love, C.

Jungle Mom said...

"Chavez is a military man and is well read."
I am forwarding this bit of info to all my Venezuelan friends. Venezuelans all know how ignorant he is! He is a joke and an embarrassment to the Venezuelan people!!!

Graeme said...

I have been trying to limit my internet time, so I won't jump into this debate, but how was the dinner with my bro and sis-in-law Ren?

Renegade Eye said...

Foxessa: I produced shows for a Venezuelan dance troop Sentir Venezolano.

Jungle Mom: Atleast you didn't say that Chavez needs or supports the FARC.

Graeme: In addition to Aaron and Nadia, a blogger from Minneapolis I didn't meet before Michael was there. JP and Marcial also were in attendance. It is always fun when the crew from Fargo visit.

JP will be in Fargo next week.

Jungle Mom said...

Of course, he supports the FARC. Everyone knows that. Do you speak Spanish? Chavez has said as much himself.

FJ said...

Chavez himself said guerilla warfare is obsolete.

I guess that explains his silly asymmetric warfare rehearsals last week with the ocean re-supply exercise and the use of horses to transport supplies and equipment up to guerilla bases in the mountains...

I watched them on YouTube earlier in the week. Great joke... Guerilla Warfare is obsolete. Ha Ha...

I think it's time you stopped listening to what Chavez says and instead start watching what Chavez does. You'll stay more informed that way.

FJ said...

Hate to break it to you foxessa, but I speak the language and lived in country for four years. I don't dance the dances though. I've got two left feet.

FJ said...

Watch the vids, Ren. The ex-general is speculating that it's Chavez's intent to deliberately ruin his "professional" army and replace it w/Cuban-like militia training...

Renegade Eye said...

When you have state power, in a relatively strong country, you don't give guerilla warfare the sleightest thought.

What use are a rag tag Maoist group, on the verge of destruction due to it's own strategy, to someone like Chavez?

I think that Chavez has to reorganize the army, to purge disloyal and corrupt elements. I predict the opposition will try another coup. See: Allende.

It's impossible for FARC to have an impact on Colombia.

Michael Hureaux said...

I suspect that whatever becomes of FARC, the imperium will need little justification to continue with its destruction of the indigenous economies of all of Latin America. Chavez and his Bolivarians may not be the revolutionary democrats so many of us have hoped for, but Chavez is for the autonomy of the Southern Americas, and that is one thing the imperium will never tolerate, never has, never will. As is the case with Castro, Chavez remains in a process that I. Deutscher would have called one of the ironies of history, a nationalist leader and process which has gone further then the old school ever wanted him to. He and his Bolivarians are now getting caught on the contradictions of the attempt to build a democratic, or socialist economy in the face of the world's deadliest empire and all of its global suck-ups.

FARC isn't much more than an ideological fart at this point, but to allow the empire to harass FARC with its military prowess and its South American catspaws would be a stupid thing for the world "left" to allow to happen. Unfortunately, the world left we have is exactly that, what's left in the postmodern hodge podge of ideas that have risen to the fore sense the collapse of marxism as a global political current.

These are terrible times we live in.

FJ said...

I think that Chavez has to reorganize the army, to purge disloyal and corrupt element.

I feel the same about the US Congress.... needs purging... but not very Democratic, that thought, especially considering all that binging they've been doing recently.

But nobody ever accused the Left of REALLY being "democratic" did they? It's their way, or an early grave.

ps - michael... wake up. The only person destroying the Venezuelan economy at the moment is HUGO. And he's managing to do it in the face of $130/ barrel oil. Incredible, isn't it?

Renegade Eye said...

Michael: Thank you for visiting this blog.

The left is in no position to help FARC, because of its own tactics and actually strategy, doesn't leave open mass support. Even if FARC goes back 60 years, still it should know, an agrarian movement can't on its own overthrow a government like Colombia's.

FJ: Allende tried making nice to reactionary army elements.

We both know before Chavez leaves office, there will be a coup attempt again.

Even with Chavez's mistakes, his record across the board, beats his predecessors.

You're not going to see Chavez, living in the jungle, anytime soon.

FJ said...

Even with Chavez's mistakes, his record across the board, beats his predecessors. Yeah, oil's $130 a barrel. That 'coup' will come when it drops back down to $40... just like Chavez's original FAILED coup did.

Renegade Eye said...

Just like people acted about Fidel Castro stepping down, wondering if there was plans for transition. As if they thought about anything else.

Chavez offered recently tax breaks. That type of policy might be a mistake.

raved said...

Of course the FARC are a petty bourgeois guerrilla tendency. But they should be unconditionally defended from Uribe and the US pushing for a new war to bring down the Bolivarian revolution.
That's why Chavez call for the FARC to disarm reveals the weakness of his BOnapartist regime trying to balance between imperialism and the masses.
His policy is that of Castro and Sarkosy - 'legalise' the FARC and undercut the US ramping up war cries in Colombia and Bolivia.
But the only way to stop the US is to military defend the FARC and every armed resistance to the deals that Chavez and Morales will attempt to make with so-called democratic imperialism.
Dave Brown
http://livingmarxism.wordpress.com

dinoibo said...

Really trustworthy blog. Please keep updating with great posts like this one. I have booked marked your site and am about to email it to a few friends of mine that I know would enjoy reading
Sesli sohbet Sesli chat
Seslisohbet Seslichat
Sesli sohbet siteleri Sesli chat siteleri
Sesli Chat
Sohbet Sesli siteler
Sohbet siteleri Chat siteleri
Sohbet merkezi chat merkezi
Sesli merkezi sesli Sohbet merkezi
Sesli chat merkezi Sohbetmerkezi
Sesli Sohbet Sesli Chat
SesliSohbet Sesli chat siteleri
Sesli sohbet siteleri SesliChat
Sesli Sesli siteler
Seslimuhabbet sesli muhabbet
sesli sohbet sesli chat siteleri
sesli sohbet siteleri sesli chat
seslisohbet seslichat
seslikent sesli kent
sesli sohbet sesli sohbet siteleri
sesli chat sesli chat siteleri
seslisohbet seslichat