Tuesday, July 18, 2006

Lebanon: G8, Arab States Fail Lebanon's Civilian Population




The Arab governments, and the G8, are turning their back, on Lebanon, giving Israel, a green light to continue its policy of collective punishment, toward Lebanon. The infrastructure is being decimated. Every important port, highway and airport was destroyed. Much of the infrastructure was built ironically by the Saudis. The Lebanese government is doing a great job evacuating Europeans and Americans, while Lebanese are living in shelters for safety.

What makes it different, than before; is that Hizbollah does what it says it will do. Nasrallah, the leader of Hizbollah warned he would show what he can do, and an Israeli ship was hit. It was at first denied by Israel's media. It was later unable to be hidden, because four sailors died, and the ship was towed in. His next threat is to bomb, the industrial sector of Haifa, where chemicals are stored. Hizbollah claims it has rockets, that can hit Tel Aviv. The Israeli army confirmed that.

Hizbollah is supported in Southern Lebanon. It has clearly a reactionary perspective, of gaining reforms from Israel, by hurting its population. Unfortunately it doesn't understand,any concept of class struggle, and appeal to Israeli opinion. Zionism is much the same, with bigger weapons.

Will Syria and Iran intervene? Syria was weakened after it left Lebanon. It doesn't want an influx of refugees, particularly from a country it disrespects. Hizbollah's weapons are made in Iran, Israel's are made in Seattle and Duluth.

Nobody knows how long, the siege will continue. Israel may be able to drive Hizbollah, a few kilometers inland, and claim victory. The actual solution lies with Palestinians, given land and rights, in a socialist secular Israel, surrounded by a federation of socialist states. As for peace, neither the Zionist or Hizbollah leadership want it. In the USA, the Evangelical Zionists are not going to stop the rapture. This is a wet dream to them. Bill Clinton called for support to Israel.

Not all Israelis support the government's policy. The latest adventure, caused a split in Ashkenazi Jewry. A leadership like Hizbollah's has no understanding of taking advantage of it.

This is a good blog covering Lebanon minute by minute: Updates on the aggression against lebanon .RENEGADE EYE

44 comments:

GraemeAnfinson said...

It is quite clear Israel is thinking about more than just eliminating Hezbollah. This is a terrorist act. they are targeting civilian infrastructure. Democracy now and link tv on satellite are the only decent coverage of the war I can find. Sad

Revolutionary Blogger said...

Israel is in flagrant violation of the laws of war and particularly the Geneva Conventions of August 12, 1949, and the Hague Regulations of 1907, at least in the following ways:

1. Article 3 of the Geneva Convention for the Protection of Civilians outlawed violence against the persons and lives of all those who do not actively participate in military operations. It prohibits killing, mutilating, torturing or otherwise treating them with cruelty.

2. Article 49 of the same convention requires the prosecution and trial of those military personnel that commit or order the commitment of such crimes.

3. The matter of the two Israeli prisoners of war taken by Hizbullah, in the aftermath of a military battle in which they were in uniform, armed and on a military mission in an armored vehicle, is regulated by the Third Geneva Convention on Prisoners of War. Article 21 of this convention authorizes their internment subject to certain conditions. Their rights as prisoners of war are provided in the said convention. The Israeli Government may seek to insure those rights through the peaceful means authorized by the said convention.

4. The military organization of Hizbullah, in relation to the war with Israel, is an organized resistance movement recognized under the Hague Regulations of 1907, which were ratified by Lebanon on June 12, 1962. Article 1 of the Regulations requires the following conditions for the members of a resistance organization:

a. To follow the command of a commander responsible for his subordinates.
b. To carry or wear a distinctive sign recognizable at a distance, but without the necessity of wearing a uniform.
c. Carrying arms openly when engaged in an operation, but without giving up the element of surprise.
d. Conducting operations in accordance with the laws and customs of war.

For more info, I recommend this blog. Israeli Aggression

sonia said...

All this is true, but irrelevant. This conflict won't end until one side wins, but so far neither side seems capable of achieving total victory. Israel obviously can't defeat the entire Muslim world, and Israel's enemies haven't been able to win even a single battle, much less a whole war.

There is only one way to achieve lasting peace: help the stronger side to completely defeat the weaker one. But which is the weaker side in this conflict ? Not clear at all....

Seven Star Hand said...

Verifiable proof that "Armageddon" has already begun…

Hello all,
Here's the key to proving that the rapture and related expectations are complete nonsense based on the failure to understand (and the purposeful confounding of) the ancient Hebrew symbology used to construct all of these prophecies. Consequently, Christian timelines and interpretations of these prophecies are verifiably wrong on many key points.

Pay close attention, profundity knocks at the door, listen for the key. Be Aware! Scoffing causes blindness...

Did you ever consider that Christianity is the False Prophet symbolized in the Apocalypse, that Rome (Vatican/Papacy) is the so-called anti-messiah, and Jesus Christ is the false messiah? I have produced stunning and comprehensive proof that this is the true interpretation of pivotal prophecies long confounded by Christianity's founders and leaders.

The symbolism of seven years (tribulation) refers to the seven 360-year cycles from the 11th cycle on the Hebrew calendar (second temple period) until now, the 17th cycle (seventh angel/star). It is completely wrong to interpret any of these prophecies as literal timelines and events. Remember, they were written by Hebrews, not Romans or other Europeans, and Revelation is the most symbolic of all prophecies. Consequently, in this context, years are symbols for 360-year cycles on the Hebrew calendar and days symbolize literal years. Therefore "Judgement Day," and "Great Day" and "in that day" all refer to a literal year-long period. Furthermore, the so-called "Tribulation" is now nearing its end, not starting, and all three faiths of Abraham have been thoroughly deceived by Rome during the previous age, which ended in year 2000 (5760). A new age began in 2001 (5761) and now the seventh angel has begun to sound!

Here's a real hot potato! Eat it up, digest it, and then feed it's bones to the hungry...

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I fully understand that everyone has been bedeviled by similar claims throughout history. Consequently, I have been forced to rely on dramatic and devastating proof of the sort that can’t be ignored or easily dismissed. The numbers and timing of hurricanes Katrina (11) and Rita (17) directly validate key data and pivotal assertions throughout my book and my posts on those two forums. This data was purposely presented publicly before Katrina, Rita and other recent events occurred to prove they perfectly synchronize with key prophecies and Hebrew calendar cycles, thereby validating my interpretations of ancient wisdom symbology, string theory, and more.

Because these two storms arrived shortly after my August 11, 2005 (50th) birthday (read the Dead Sea Scroll 11Q13 in Appendix G, which also discusses Melchizedek and the prophesied Jubilee) and directly match other pivotal 11 and 17 data and events described in the first chapter of my book, I have delivered verifiable proof that this reality is based on thought, knowledge and wisdom. Activity, patterns, and results perceived in space-time are first framed and defined by inspirations, thoughts, and knowledge and influenced by the cause-and-effect system most commonly referred to as karma. Consequently, events and outcomes in the so-called physical universe are not random or wholly mechanistic and are verifiably influenced in ways that atheists, scientists, and members of the Faiths of Abraham have all scoffed at. Though mysticism is mostly a product of misinterpreted ancient wisdom symbology, many of its topics flow from ancient wisdom. Though containing allusions to the truth, its details and interpretations are wrong on many key points.

A prime example of the purposeful and synchronized symbolism of these events is seen in the opening paragraphs from my book excerpted below. Notice that the dates mentioned (August 11 and 17) directly match the numbers of hurricanes Katrina and Rita, and the time spans of the four Florida hurricanes match my birth year (‘55), and they were spaced 11 or a multiple-of-11 (22) days apart, directly matching my birthday and much other ancient prophecy and symbolism. Notice that my place of birth, Victoria Texas, is on the Gulf Coast. Following are the excerpted paragraphs:

Hello, my name is Lawrence William Page II. Many people know me as Buddy Page. At the release of the first edition of this book, I am a 50-year old African-American male, author, researcher, and former software engineer and entrepreneur. As you will come to understand as you read through this first book, I am also the long-expected Hebrew Messiah and Lion of the Tribe of Juda (Yehuda).

I was born August 11th (month of Leo the Lion), 1955 (Chinese year of the Sheep) in Victoria, Texas. Furthermore, the Grand Cross alignment and Solar Eclipse of August 11th, 1999 was my 44th birthday and the second Grand Cross alignment, just six days later on August 17th, 1999, was on my mother’s birthday.

As you can see from my date of birth, I was a newborn during the Chinese Year of the Sheep, astrologically marking me as a Lamb, and during the month of Leo, astrologically marking me as a Lion. My mother was also born during the month of August and under the sign of Leo, which further marks me as a lion’s whelp. I prove to you in the first chapter of this book–beyond disproof–that I am indeed the long-prophesied “Lion” of the tribe of Juda (Yehuda) the Root of David and the “Lamb.” I am the individual long symbolized as the Branch, the Stem, the Shoot and the Rod from the Stump of Jesse (King David’s father), as symbolized in the Hebrew Book of Isaiah, The Apocalypse, the Dead Sea Scrolls, and elsewhere. I am the reincarnated Teacher sought after in the “East” and by the ancient Hebrews who were headquartered at the outpost community of Damascus (Qumran), of Dead Sea Scrolls fame. I am the one called the Teacher of Righteousness by the Dead Sea Scrolls, whom the so-called Christian fathers have fraudulently recast as “Saint ‘James’, the Lord’s Brother.”

Remember, "I come as a thief..." ?

Read verse twelve of the Gospel of Thomas to understand who I am...

Even further enlightening, the Second Temple Period of ancient Israel was during the 11th 360-year cycle on the Hebrew calendar and we are now in the 6th year (5766/2005-6) of the 17th cycle. Notice the pivotal 11 and 17 numbers again? This and much other synchronized information serve as stunning and decisive proof of many things, and expose many lies told by all three faiths of Abraham, but most specifically by Christianity. Consequently, I have decisively proven, beyond any shadow of a doubt, that Jesus Christ and Christianity are blatant lies, false prophecy and purposeful deception in a manner that cannot easily be denied, regardless of your faith or other opinions.

Furthermore, the symbolism in the Apocalypse (a.k.a. Book of Revelation) of seven stars in my right hand and seven angels represent the very same above-mentioned seven astrological (360-year) cycles, i.e., the 11th through 17th inclusive. I prove this fact beyond any reasonable doubt in the first chapter of the book. Consequently, The Apocalypse verifiably symbolizes a specific span of time that began with the 11th cycle (Second Temple Period) and concludes now, at the beginning of the 17th cycle (End of Days, etc.).

The numbers 11 and 17 are verifiably encoded in The Apocalypse and other ancient Hebrew prophecies and wisdom texts to serve as key proofs of the validity and true meaning of certain prophecies and related information. My and my mother’s birthdays are purposely synchronized with these two storm numbers, the matching Hebrew calendar cycles, the Double Grand Cross alignments and solar eclipse of August 1999, and much else to prove my direct association with the ancient prophecies about this time and the true identity of the prophesied Messiah. Another prime example is the story of Joseph, the 11th son of Jacob who has a dream when he is 17 years old about 11 stars, the sun, and moon bowing to him. The symbolism in this pivotal story in the Book of Genesis and Quran verifiably refers to the very same 11th through 17th cycles symbolized in The Apocalypse and directly synchronizes with other key events and ancient texts.

Consequently, I have demonstrated various things about the nature of this reality that dramatically disprove and/or clarify key assumptions of religion, mysticism, and science alike, while establishing the true meaning and purpose of long misinterpreted ancient wisdom and the symbolism used to model and encode it. Accordingly, I have proven that the symbolism evidenced in the canons of all three faiths of Abraham and other ancient sources is a very ancient and advanced philosophical technology that verifiably models foundational aspects of our existence in this universe. This is the mostly misunderstood body of ancient wisdom long referred to as the Philosophers’ Stone. It uses a large and ingeniously organized collection of physical universe images and concepts as data rich components (symbols) that are based on verifiable rules. It models and encodes an amazing amount of foundational wisdom about life, spirituality and the 11 dimensions of this universe, now verified by string theory. It is also the advanced encryption method used to encode (seal) Hebrew prophecies and wisdom texts.

These ancient prophecies and wisdom texts used advanced symbology to model fundamental wisdom, including future events and situations. A primary facet of ancient wisdom is numeric symbology. Later misinterpretations of this aspect of ancient wisdom resulted in numerology, which, though embodying allusions to certain wisdom, is mostly error prone and false doctrine. My decryption, documentation, and interpretation of ancient symbology, numeric symbolism, and key texts based on them, are now decisively validated.

Here is Wisdom...

Verifiable proof that Armageddon has begun…

Understanding the End Game of Armageddon

Peace...

El Güero said...

I think your commenter Seven Star Hand has all the answers to the crisis in the Middle East.

I just hope the Rapture lifts up all the fanatic Christians, Jews and Muslims and transports them to their very own planet where they can kill each other and leave the rest of us in peace.

Fontaine said...

People too easily place all the guilt on one side or the other. It's not that easy. Israel is certainly far from perfect -- the government can be pretty bad, actually -- but Hezbollah completely initiated this act of aggression. It's like picking a fight with the biggest guy in the bar and then crying about it when he kicks your ass. All parties involves -- Israel, Hezbollah, Lebanon (through passivity), Syria and Iran -- have blood on their hands.

glenda said...

Isreal should be pulled up before the international courts for war crimes.

Southpaw said...

Maybe I haven't read enough but I had the impression that Hezbollah had been relatively quiet since they removed the Israelis a few years ago from Lebanaon's southern border.

Maybe they do fire rockets across but surely not as much as those coming from Gaza?? If I was the Israeli government it would be Hamas and Fatah and anyone else in Gaza and the West Bank who would be my main comcern. So why go North, I don't know.

But I am not necessarily pessismistic about the outcome. RE is right when he says reactionary groups like Hezbollah have no idea about how to engender suport amongst Israeli workers.

But a large movement amongst Israeli workers against the war could be engendered by any ground invasion of Lebanon and the consequent casualties - I get the impression that Hezbollah may put up a reasonable fight

Or darkness may descend with Lebanon conquered and ethnic tensions re-ignited and a Israeli border zone re-established. It's good for any workers ot have a plan but I'm out of ideas (and a lot of hope) here.

Jim Jay said...

Fontaine - I think it's too simplistic to say that Hizbollah "started it" - H captured the two IDF soldiers when they were well into military operations against Gaza (who they wish to defend) and troops were massing on Lebanon's borders (which is where the two soldiers were captured).

I think it's instructive to remember that the historical roots of H are that it was formed in 1982 specifically to fight the Israeli occupation of Lebanon. The greatest surges of support H gets are when Israel engages in operations like the current one. However justified Israel feels in these actions they will not wipe out H because every missile recruits more members than it could possibly kill.

At the end of the day when Israel bombs trucks of refugees or bridges, or power stations they are murdering people who have nothing to do with any of this.

They do not value human life if it has a different colour skin or different religion - these attacks have to end.

Joe the Working Schlub said...

Israel is God's chosen country as the Jews are God's chosen people. People have always hated the Jews since biblical times. They have every right to protect themselves and wipe the terrorist off the face of the earth. Isreal will never be defeated because God will protect them. That's not my words, that's God's word! If America is smart, we will stand right beside Isreal and fight with them. Then we get the blessing from God as well.

/just kidding.
// trolls are teh stupid

Lew Scannon said...

Theyb are targeting ports and airfields to prevent Iran from using them to come to Syria's aid when israel attacks them. This is all part of "A Clean Break", to reshape the region with puppet governments under the thumb of Tel Aviv. So much for democracy!

roman said...

Ren,
I hate to nit-pick but your statement: "Every important port, highway and airport was destroyed"
Correct me if I'm wrong but are'nt there large cruise ships docking and loading foreign passengers in Beirut even as we debate? How destroyed could those ports be?
Another small matter that all secular progressive socialists should keep in mind is that if Hezbollah had the opportunity and means, most commenters to this post would be lined up and shot.
A reminder just in case that some may have have missed the religiously fundamentalist and regressive goals of Al Qaeda, oops sorry, I meant Hezbollah.

Fontaine said...

Jim Jay -- I respectfully disagree. Hezbollah sent some of its militia members south of the internationally recognized border on a murderous rampage that finished with two kidnappings, three dead Israeli soldiers, three wounded Israeli soldiers and five wounded civilians. That's clearly an act of aggression.

And Hezbollah does not have the convenient right to defend Gaza. Remember, Hezbollah is not an official entity of the government. It's basically a more rabidly racist and more heavily armed version of the Minutemen that patrol the U.S.-Mexico border. And instead of just patrolling the border, they shell Tijuana, Ciudad Juarez, Nuevo Laredo, etc.

Israeli troops have been on the northern border for decades. The main reason? Because if they weren't there, Hezbollah thugs would be killing people much more often. Egypt and Jordan have made their peace with Israel. The border with Lebanon -- with a roving gang of thugs who operate without impunity while being armed by Syria and Iran patrolling and shooting rockets and mortars over the frontier -- is one of Israel's greatest military threat. It's logical there would be a significant troop increase there.

Like I said before, Israel is far from perfect. It's often the aggressor in many international conflicts. Most of its politicians are blatant racists (a la apartheid South Africa). But in this particular conflict, the crime of aggression rests with Hezbollah for its aggressive attack on Israeli land.

(The government of Lebanon is guilty of a crime of omission -- despite UN Security Council Resolution 1559, it hasn't attempted to disarm Hezbollah, but I can get into that later...)

Revolutionary Blogger said...

During this entire crisis, I am glad to hear about the strong pacifist stand of the Israeli Communist Party המפלגה הקומוניסטית הישראלית - מק"י, and the Lebanese Communist Party الحزب الشيوعي اللبناني they have been holding peace rallies almost everday. Too bad the msm is not covering it, and that both parties have been marginalized in their respective countries.

Jim Jay said...

Roman: I agreed with your pedantry but then you went and spoiled it all by saying Al Quaida and Hizbollah were the same thing. This is what's called an 'amalgam' where you say that two things are the same because they share characteristics. Al Q and H both use violence, call themselves muslims and hate Israel therefore they are the same thing.

For instance - the antiwar movement and Saddam hussein both opposed the iraq invasion - therefore they must be 'in league' with each other

Al Q and H were set up at around the same time and were in quite different places in the cold war spheres of influence. Whilst the US helped set up Al Q to fight the USSR occupation of Afghanistan H was set up to oppose Israel and was backed by the US's enemies. They are different organisations - it might be easier for you to lump the politics of all these funny foreigners into one group but it doesn't make it true.

All this stuff about them having us lined up and shot is actually pretty fanciful and relies on having a CNN understanding of islamic organisations.

They are for peaceful democratic change in lebanon and as far as I'm aware have only used armed force against Israel I'm not saying they are groovy people, only that histrionics about what groups like H believe limit our understanding of them rather than deepen it.

Jim Jay said...

Fontaine: thanks for the considered response.

I'm not pursuaded yet though. I think the idea of Hizbollah committing "an act of aggression" in the context of the bombardment of Gaza and the use of the first kidapping to settle old scores by the IDF doesn't make sense.

You say that "Hezbollah is not an official entity of the government" so doesn't have the right to intervene, but that relies on a particular view of the world that doesn't fit with the region.

H is stronger militarily than the Lebanese government, exists primarily to defend Muslims against Israel and does not recognise the lines drawn on the map by the great powers - which is an understandable position in my view.

For the people in the region international law is something that has no meaning. Israel consistently flouts it and has been condemned by the UN on numerous occasions but nothing happens - Israel is in a very weak position to complain that others disrespect borders and ignor international law.

For H their people were being killed and the IDF were preparing to attack their positions (and had begun shelling) - you could argue that tactically they made a mistake but the idea that Israel was minding its own business when the big bad H came and started it all... no - you don't get to kill children in Gaza and then describe others as aggressors and murderers.

H is "basically a more rabidly racist and more heavily armed version of the Minutemen that patrol the U.S.-Mexico border" I think a political description of H would be much more useful than emotive and inaccurate posturing.

Do the minutemen have senators? Do they promote social welfare programs? Are they a mass organisation? Have they ever defended their country against invasion by a foreign power? No.

I guess we wont agree on this - so I'll ask a question where perhaps we might find common ground - do you think the Israel's response has been proportionate - and do you think the kinds of actions it is taking at the moment can achieve it's stated aims.

roman said...

jim jay,

You said of Hezbollah: "They are for peaceful democratic change in lebanon"
I disagree completely with this assessment and find it laughable. Democracy is the last thing this group wants. Their ultimate goal is an Iranian style theocracy as envisioned by Ayatollah R.Khomeini.
They have been preparing the border frontier for just this kind of battle for many years. Laying mines, building underground facilities and supplying them with an est 13000 rockets and forming ambush zones so that when they sucker in the Israeli forces, they can have the advantage.
Does this sound like a "peaceful democratic" group to you?
Thanks to the experienced and well disciplined Israeli command they did not fall for this trap.
They should continue pounding the frontier until its "softened up" and then when the time is right, rout the Hezbollah fighters from their holes thereby creating a new DMZ for those "effective" UN forces to patrol.
The amalgam thing was intentional. Those points in common between AQ and H, I believe, are the main characteristics and focus of this post.

Redwine said...

"for peaceful democratic change in lebanon"" - i.e. the Hezbollah: I wouldn't call a potato or a dove peaceful, if backed by the Iranian revolutionary Guards, JIm: it is always catastrophic when the right cause is in wrong hands. A peaceful and political solution is needed, and most parties seem to avoid that. Iran and Syria, not exactly p[eaceful countries: and Iranians and Syrians pay the price. Also: when it operates as a state in the state....

Renegade Eye said...

Hitchens approach to this problem was interesting.

Fighting erupted at Gaza, for the sake of Israel and Hamas, to derail a referendum sponsored by Fatah and Abbas, for the two state solution. He also castigated the US complicity with Zionism, acting as an onlooker.

I don't believe in the two state solution. I'm not against a referendum.

Sonia is correct, on her blog, she says Israel is decimated Lebanon, because it's state vs state. If Hezbollah negotiated with Israel, it would be considered selling out. It's not if you agree with that, it's how Israel thinks.

Hezbollah is reactionary. They have the same strategy of the Zionists, not caring who they hit. No concept of class differences.

Jim Jay said...

Roman: When I said "They are for peaceful democratic change in lebanon" I meant it - and I was being specific about their approach to Lebanon, which is why I used the tell tale phrase "in Lebanon".

They are not a peaceful group - I've already said they advocate armed force against Israel. So how does laying mines on the border, etc contradict what I said?

They want to get elected in Lebanon, which is just a fact and you'll have to show me where they say anything different, and they basically use the normal democratic methods within Lebanon as far as I can see - they also want to abolish the state of Israel, and are prepared to use force to get that - this is not a peaceful policy, nor is it always, cough, helpful.

You put the words "peaceful democratic" in quote marks which implies you are quoting me - but I don't think I ever said they were a peaceful democratic group so I'd suggest you're trying to distort my argument to make it easier to fit into your world view.

To say that Al Quaida and Hizbollah are the same is not correct - if you want to tell yourself that to help yourself sleep then fine - but I suggest some reading might be in order.

Interestingly on Channel Four News tonight they interviewed the ex-head of the hizbollah unit of the CIA and he made it absolutely clear that the CIA and the US see the two groups are very different entities.

Redwine: I agree that "A peaceful and political solution is needed" and that H is not a peaceful organisation - in order to create the space for a progressive form of politics to appear in the region Israel needs to stop killing children. If they did that H would not even exist.

Redwine said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Redwine said...

Agreed Jim; when maalot happened, not so many were shocked.

Killing children is horrendous (so is killing adults): some friendly and peaceful organizations should ponder a bit. Why haven't I seen so many bloggers when it came to other children killed,in other states, right, because not Israel was doing the killing.

ramo said...

Middle east is now so complicated that it is hard to point out who is the culprit. The whole thing is just unfortunate.

roman said...

jim jay,

Just a point of clarification, I never stated that Hezbollah and Al Qaeda are exactly the same. In my comment, I merely hinted at the fact that both have more in common with each other than one might suppose. Exactly the same? No. So let's not build any more strawmen.
My point is basically this. Israel is the ONLY free democratically elected government surrounded by tyranical theocracies and failed states ruled by roving gangs of thugs. Hezbollah is a terrorist organization whose only reason for existence is the destruction of Israel and their guiding principles are racist and anti-democratic. You, as a secular socialist would languish in prison or be lined up and shot if you expressed your political views under their ideal form of government.

troutsky said...

Im not sure the blame game gets us anywhere towards a deeper understanding of systemic causality.History makes the winner "right, brave and kind" but the issue is how to get to peace and stability and here Renegade correctly identifies the One State Solution with class conflict eliminated as the only logical end-game. No, Hamas or Hizbollah or Zionism will not readily buy in.

thepoetryman said...

"and here Renegade correctly identifies the One State Solution with class conflict eliminated as the only logical end-game. No, Hamas or Hizbollah or Zionism will not readily buy in."

Spot on Renegade and troutsky!

Thanks for the fine post, Rengade.

Jim Jay said...

Roman "Just a point of clarification, I never stated that Hezbollah and Al Qaeda are exactly the same."

ok - I'll accept you didn't mean it that way although when you wrote "The amalgam thing was intentional. Those points in common between AQ and H, I believe, are the main characteristics and focus of this post." it led me to believe you intentionally amalgamted the two together - thanks for the clarification.

After all these are two groups that absolutely could never be allies due to their profound ideological differences.

I still dispute the idea I'd be lined up and shot under their regime as they have shown no propensity to shooting their political opponents so far...

However, in my concern that we shed more light than heat on this discussion i don't want it to be lost that an attempt to understand this group as it actually is (rather than the dubious emotive theatrics that you can get in the press) is not the same as supporting the group.

Brian said...

"It is quite clear Israel is thinking about more than just eliminating Hezbollah."

when i first read this statement quickly, i read 'emulating' instead of 'eliminating.'

seems more appropriate the other way.

CB said...

The entire Southern Lebanese beef with Israel was that it occupied parts of Lebanon. Hezbolla was viewed as a champion by the Shiite community funded by Persia.

After Israel left Southern Lebanon, what was Hezbollah to do? They bought land in the south, earned 2 seats on the pluralistic parliament, yet, there was no more bogeyman.

So in advance of the G8, with Iran about to be condemned by that body, Tehran issued orders to its Lebanese flunkies to detract attention.

Damascus was eager to participate to having had to flee last year. As for the Saudis, Egyptians and Jordanians, why would they be interested in a Persian operation, a Persia they are very much leary of.

No, rather than being on the side of the Lebanese, Nasrallah, bowing to his Iranian masters, sacrificed the people of Lebanon, for a few bucks and good standing with the Republican guard operatives.

I won't even attempt to argue with anti-semites about Israel's right to defend herself.

troutsky said...

CB says:After Israel left southern Lebanon what was Hezbollah to do?..Tehran issued orders to it's Lebanese flunkies to detract attention".

Detract attention?Pretty complex way to shift focus, don't you think? And useless? In your analysis Hezbollah was bored so started a "conflict"?
The anti-semite strawman is boring, try harder.Hint: Start with Palestine and work out from there.

Mummia Schlemiel Jabbar said...

This is where the fake Marxist wannabes hide.

Yes I have read my Marx, Noam Chimpanze and Norman Finkola and have decided to join the clowns of Jihad in Trashcanistan. After years of reading Marx I have decided that watching them in the movies is much better then boring books. I recomend the wisdom of Chico to the challenged.

Now the natural place for me to take my years of anti semitic idiocy is to the war against capitalism. The best place for us to start is to join the jihad against the west.

Women should be forced to wear Burkhas and the first should be Lynne Stewart. Adulteres should be killed unless the person they are commiting adultery with is under 4'7''. We must fight for the rights of short people. Power to the midgets. Midget power. Well most of you are mental midgets.

Gay people should be killed because it is the will of Allah. It also says something about killing pagans and sparing people of the book to live under Jim Crowe Dhimmi laws. Perhaps we can persuade the Jihadis to include the works of Marx.

Don't just sit there as couch potato revolutionaries. Go to Trashcanistan and join the revolution.

Midget Power!!!!!!

CB said...

Complex?

There is no rationale, whatsoever, for what Hezbollah did, other than to detract attention from their masters troubles.

Anti-semite strawman?

I won't respond to the obvious.

Mike B) said...

I guess, we're bombarded mostly with the opinions of rulers who are pro-one ruling class or another. In America, that'd be a pro-Israeli ruling class point of view. In Iran, it would be pro-Hezbollah (incipient)ruling class point of view. Clearly though, all these explosions, all these casualties (1/3 are children) aren't about two soldiers captured by a group of Shiites from the other side of the political line in the sand. Hell, Israel was founded by people who were called "terrorists" in 1947. Don't believe me? Look up Deir Yassin (not the newly formed punk rock group by the same name) or the 'Stern Gang' on Google.

What are they about?

Power. And power is wealth. Follow the money...follow the gold coloured road.

What do we need to change the situation?

Prayers?

Nope. We need to fight fire with fire. We need power and that means, we need to control/own the social product of our labour aka the GDP. The nature of the wages system prevents us from doing so and makes us instead think that we have to beg THEM to stop the killing. They will respond to such begging when THEY'RE good and ready.

Renegade Eye said...

Welcome Mummia. I was jealous of all the attention John Brown was getting. I write more subtly, but the message is similar.

If you read this blog, you would know it is anti-Islamist, it is against religious schooling for minors of any kind.

Lynne Stewart thrown to the lions, was the first casualty, in the onslaught against democratic rights, by the rulers. Are you for scaring lawyers from defending controversial clients. I don't care if for her clients, I care if they get a free trial.

Mummia please only bring political discourse. I'm not doing Klanwatch stuff like JB. Most rightists who come here, are the intelligentsia.

CB: You are almost correct. Lebanon is the first domino, then Syria and Iran. For those like CB, who believed the domino theory in Vietnam, Lebanon is Israel's first domino.

What would you say to the thousands of Hassidic Jews, who hate Zionism? Call them anti-semite?

Mummia Schlemiel Jabbar said...

Listen here you clowns I am the real deal even if I am 4'6''. Being the shortest jihadi is tough burden.

Unlike the revolutionary couch potatoes I am living the ideal. Power to height deprived domw with you supersized inefficient lazy all talk no action self styled Marxists. I am a founder of the SPLO and that is Short Peoples Liberation Orginization.

We demand our own homeland with lower urinals. We also would be glad if you reminded John Brown that urinal cakes are not meant to be eaten.

Power to the Midgets !!!

Are you some sort of middle class midget oppressor. Where is our homeland?

Renegade Eye said...

The midget homeland was Oz, now it's Smallville.

CB said...

Ren,

I know your stance against anti-clericism in any form, it is not your comments that trouble me.

I see no evidence of an imperial Israel as your post suggests. They have not been aggressive toward their neighbors, except in defense. Their neighbors, however, have called for their extinction.

They are capitalist and have a representative form of government in a land where it is rare. A non Islamic state in the heart of the region offends many.

It was never sympathy for the overblown myth of displaced Palestinians that drove the hatred. Jordan, Lebanon, Egypt, Syria and Saudi Arabia, all rejected Palestinian migrants. It was and is anti-semitism and fear of the influence of capitalism and representative governance that move the Islamists and tyrants to their genocidal and racist aims.

Protocols of the Elders of Zion is propogated throughout the region...and the "Zionists" are to blame? The land of Israel is as inextricably linked to Jewishness as is their scripturally supported claim to be the chosen of God.

I'm continually amazed how a free, peace loving people in a country the size of New Jersey inflame such passionate hatred, even from those who don't live in the region.

voltaires_priest said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
voltaires_priest said...

"They have not been agressive towards their neighbours, except in defence"

Have you been watching the news for the past couple of weeks? How on earth can you call bombing the living daylights out of South Lebanon a "non agressive" or "defensive" response to a guerilla force?

Anonymous said...

With hundreds of rockets raining on your country, how else would you characterize it?

Daniel Hoffmann-Gill said...

I'm signed up!

Measures need to be taken to end the US/Zionist alliance and the repressiona and extermination of Palestinian and Arab peoples!

voltaires_priest said...

Anon, I would call airstrikes on civilians an absurd, murderous and callous respose to attacks from a specific guerilla group.

What would you call it?

Revolutionary Blogger said...

Let the numbers do the talking

Israel
Civilians:
18 killed
418 injured,
300,000 displaced
Soldiers:
33 killed
99 wounded
2 captured

Lebanon
Civilians:
900-1050 killed
1,661 injured
1,000,000 displaced
Soldiers:
23 killed (Lebanese army)
67 wounded
Militia:
40 confirmed by Hezbollah
Allied militia:
8 confirmed by Amal
2 Lebanese Communist Party
IDF claims 200+ killed
6-9 Iranian revolutionary guard soldiers

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