tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11704331.post3761860352163008745..comments2023-11-05T03:12:10.925-06:00Comments on Renegade Eye: Yes very friendly indeedFrank Partisanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03536211653082893030noreply@blogger.comBlogger109125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11704331.post-47027699172184001902007-08-04T17:00:00.000-05:002007-08-04T17:00:00.000-05:00Thanks RE,I love it when people dont deny their hu...Thanks RE,<BR/><BR/>I love it when people dont deny their humanity.<BR/><BR/>There are certain contradictions that are inherint in our complex relationships and certain contradictions in ideology that inexcusable.<BR/><BR/>This is the type of point that some bloggers blow up out of proportion and distract from the real debate.<BR/><BR/>The Farmer is unique. There is no blogger like him.Freedomnowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09498640235994153216noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11704331.post-3957640705538801232007-08-03T22:50:00.000-05:002007-08-03T22:50:00.000-05:00Actually, it has been a treat to debate with Farme...Actually, it has been a treat to debate with Farmer John. (Would say the same abt Sonia) In 8 years of Internet use, one of the rarest creatures I have encountered has been a truly literate, knowledgeable "rightist". Usually, what you encouter is someone who knows nothing of history, philosophy or politics who simply repeats ad nauseum the idiocies he (rarely she) has picked up from hate radio, or at best a very simple-minded, poorly thought-out version of "conservatism". The arguements are always logical fallacies. It is sad because there are a number of rightist or reactionary traditions that do have content - such as the European Right - starting with DeMaistre down to Alain DeBenoist today, the British Tory Tradition (of which the Canuck version is where I find my roots) and of course, the American libetarian-conservative tradition. One thing I learned from studying Hegel many years ago is that no philosophies worthy of the name are completely untrue, all have some rational content. The task of the critical thinker is to find that content. I would say this is the situation with the three aforementioned traditions. We socialists and anarchists can learn from these traditions, without of course becoming rightists or right-left hybrids like some of the proto-fascist thinkers of the 1930's. It would be far too lengthy a comment to state exactly what is valuable in such traditions, but if anyone would like to get an idea read Raymond William's classic study of Tory writers, "Culture and Society"Larry Gambonehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04965037776214596919noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11704331.post-35627286871024897182007-08-03T22:03:00.000-05:002007-08-03T22:03:00.000-05:00Freedom Now: I imagine you'll discover greater con...Freedom Now: I imagine you'll discover greater contradictions, than whether I want to change people's views vs not changing anyone. I have seen people change opinions in my lifetime.<BR/><BR/>I've been thinking about this subject quite a bit lately. The main value of having opposing views here, is otherwise I'd never be exposed to them. Some of the rightist arguments are new to me.<BR/><BR/>I have very few Marxists here.<BR/><BR/>I invited Farmer to visit my blog. I read through comments on my blog, his arguments were smart, and never personal.Frank Partisanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03536211653082893030noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11704331.post-4975055308059902072007-08-03T20:40:00.000-05:002007-08-03T20:40:00.000-05:00Ahhhh Babbling Fish, your one stop shop for gibber...Ahhhh Babbling Fish, your one stop shop for gibberish. I cant really blame them, because its hard to translate a complex language that doesnt make zeros and ones.<BR/><BR/>Thats interesting that you say that you dont want to change anyone, but earlier you said that you would wish to move people a touch to the Left.<BR/><BR/>I dont expect complete consistency from you or even myself. I'm just pointing that you have already expressed such interest, no matter how small. <BR/><BR/>It looks like Farmer wants your attention.Freedomnowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09498640235994153216noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11704331.post-2091263121364429152007-08-03T13:19:00.000-05:002007-08-03T13:19:00.000-05:00Yes, Farmer John, thank you for the discussion. It...Yes, Farmer John, thank you for the discussion. It has been interesting. And thank you for being gentlemanly in your discourse. A welcome change! I recognize where you are coming from and while I disagree totally, at least it has an intellectual pedigree! (I am also familiar with Joseph DeMaistre) One final point. You speak of wisdom - well, from my studies and experience of life (62 years now) I would consider you well-versed but possesssing views that lack wisdom. And of course, you would say the same about me. Thus, I think there is little point in carrying on.Larry Gambonehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04965037776214596919noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11704331.post-5110351996078098072007-08-03T12:47:00.000-05:002007-08-03T12:47:00.000-05:00erratum - 'lover of wisdom' (not love of knowledge...erratum - 'lover of wisdom' (not love of knowledge)... using people as means to an end, not ends unto themselves.<BR/><BR/>I think you're a more a lover of justice, than wisdom (treating people as ends unto themselves and NOT a means to an end).<BR/><BR/>Of course, lovers of justice really shouldn't attempt to achieve any "ends" but their own. Best, they mind their own business and leave the business of "ruling others" to the wise, lest they be called "hypocrites".Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11704331.post-72167943971108545792007-08-03T12:32:00.000-05:002007-08-03T12:32:00.000-05:00I prefer anthropology to philosophy when it comes ...<I>I prefer anthropology to philosophy when it comes to evidence about human behaviour.</I><BR/><BR/>the study of man to a love of knowledge.<BR/><BR/>Looking back on man to looking forward towards the overman?<BR/><BR/>Afterthoughts to Forethought?<BR/><BR/><A HREF="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epimetheus_(mythology)" REL="nofollow">Epimetheus to Prometheus</A>?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11704331.post-78580869211255812422007-08-03T12:28:00.000-05:002007-08-03T12:28:00.000-05:00What's good for the goose, is gravy for the gander...What's <I>good</I> for the goose, is gravy for the gander.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11704331.post-48581548887708258862007-08-03T12:26:00.001-05:002007-08-03T12:26:00.001-05:00As is everything on this earth, it's relative.As is everything on this earth, it's <I>relative</I>.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11704331.post-44672570388668489912007-08-03T12:26:00.000-05:002007-08-03T12:26:00.000-05:00"Justice" cannot exist without someone to "execute..."Justice" cannot exist without someone to "execute" it. Eye for eye is the requirement amongst weak peoples. With the "strong" it's more a matter of how many fleas a healthy dog can tolerate.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11704331.post-32152032026495214252007-08-03T12:22:00.000-05:002007-08-03T12:22:00.000-05:00...and as proof that governments MUST be evil... h......and as proof that governments MUST be evil... have you ever read the conservative Joseph d' Maistre's "panegyric on the executioner"?<BR/><BR/>He believed that the executioner was the foundation stone of the state and social order.<BR/><BR/>Imagine that.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11704331.post-25860852924497330712007-08-03T12:13:00.000-05:002007-08-03T12:13:00.000-05:00Which sometimes requires a leap of faith (or intui...Which sometimes requires a <I>leap of faith</I> (or intuition).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11704331.post-26342048940293715652007-08-03T12:10:00.000-05:002007-08-03T12:10:00.000-05:00btw - Will to Power merely describes the world as ...btw - Will to Power merely describes the world as it <I>really</I> is.<BR/><BR/>Not how is "should" or "ought" to be in the future. It is the tower from which the tightrope walker must exit and procede's towards another (what ought be/should be).<BR/><BR/>As Nietzsche also said...<I>Knowledge thus became a portion of life itself, and as life it became a continually growing power; until finally the cognitions and those primeval, fundamental errors clashed with each other, both as life, both as power, both in the same man. The thinker is now the being in whom the impulse to truth and those life-preserving errors wage their first conflict, now that the impulse to truth has also proved itself to be a life-preserving power. In comparison with the importance of this conflict everything else is indifferent; the final question concerning the conditions of life is here raised, and the first attempt is here made to answer it by experiment. How far is truth susceptible of embodiment - that is the question, that is the experiment.</I><BR/><BR/>btw - truth is NOT what your thinking...<I>493 (1885)<BR/>Truth is the kind of error without which a certain species of life could not live. The value for life is ultimately decisive.</I><BR/><BR/>Zarathustra<BR/><BR/><I> Then, however, something happened which made every mouth mute and every eye fixed. In the meantime, of course, the rope-dancer had commenced his performance: he had come out at a little door, and was going along the rope which was stretched between two towers, so that it hung above the market-place and the people. When he was just midway across, the little door opened once more, and a gaudily-dressed fellow like a buffoon sprang out, and went rapidly after the first one. "Go on, halt-foot," cried his frightful voice, "go on, lazy-bones, interloper, sallow-face!- lest I tickle thee with my heel! What dost thou here between the towers? In the tower is the place for thee, thou shouldst be locked up; to one better than thyself thou blockest the way!"- And with every word he came nearer and nearer the first one. When, however, he was but a step behind, there happened the frightful thing which made every mouth mute and every eye fixed- he uttered a yell like a devil, and jumped over the other who was in his way. The latter, however, when he thus saw his rival triumph, lost at the same time his head and his footing on the rope; he threw his pole away, and shot downward faster than it, like an eddy of arms and legs, into the depth. The market-place and the people were like the sea when the storm cometh on: they all flew apart and in disorder, especially where the body was about to fall.</I><BR/><BR/>Who will reach the overman? You can't just talk the talk. You must walk that precipitous walk.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11704331.post-84181477024532672892007-08-03T12:02:00.000-05:002007-08-03T12:02:00.000-05:00Freedom Now: I Babelfished the lyrics here.The wri...Freedom Now: I Babelfished the lyrics <A HREF="http://www.todotango.com/spanish/biblioteca/letras/letra.asp?idletra=977" REL="nofollow">here</A>.<BR/><BR/>The writer of this post is a blog team member, who leads a group, to help people leave Islam. This blog was never pro-Islamist.<BR/><BR/>I've always had rightists at my blog. Sonia and myself are connected at the waist. Some rightists have visited for years.<BR/><BR/>I'm always wondering what is the point? I'm not interested in changing anyone, but having atleast an impact. The value of having people who disagree with me here, is that atleast I'm exposed to arguments I never would come across, if it was left only.<BR/><BR/>I have a hard time getting Marxists to come to my blog.<BR/><BR/>Farmer: I will answer tonight.Frank Partisanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03536211653082893030noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11704331.post-56969789045432178492007-08-03T12:01:00.000-05:002007-08-03T12:01:00.000-05:00It's been fun larry. Thanks for the discussion.It's been fun larry. Thanks for the discussion.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11704331.post-9461951875482056422007-08-03T12:00:00.000-05:002007-08-03T12:00:00.000-05:00Yes, Farmer John, I have read "Will To Power." Qu...Yes, Farmer John, I have read "Will To Power." Quoting it does not impress me other than to show that you have some education. I have a different interpretation of what "will to power" means. I think the sort of brutal social darwinist concept of it was not what N. had in mind at all, but was something that was imputed as a rationalization for the crimes of imperialism and the Robber Barons at that time. If I remember correctly the German word that N. uses is "maken" (or something like that) which is the same root word as "to make" . What is translated as "will to POWER" in English is actually something more along the line of "Will to make/create/do/act" And even if N did mean the crude concept of power, it still proves nothing. I prefer anthropology to philosophy when it comes to evidence about human behaviour.Larry Gambonehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04965037776214596919noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11704331.post-20964857939157331202007-08-03T11:59:00.000-05:002007-08-03T11:59:00.000-05:00...since they have neither the means, will, or str......since they have neither the means, will, or stregnth to do it...<BR/><BR/>merely a "cause".<BR/><BR/>After all, THAT is what a rationalization is. A cause. And as Nietzsche said in his "Gay Science"...<BR/><BR/><I><B>Cause</B> and Effect. We say it is "explanation "; but it is only in "description" that we are in advance of the older stages of knowledge and science. We describe better, we explain just as little as our predecessors. We have discovered a manifold succession where the naive man and investigator of older cultures saw only two things, <B>"cause"</B> and "effect,"as it was said; we have perfected the conception of becoming, but have not got a knowledge of what is above and behind the conception. The series of "causes" stands before us much more complete in every case; we conclude that this and that must first precede in order that that other may follow - but we have not grasped anything thereby. The peculiarity, for example, in every chemical process seems a "miracle," the same as before, just like all locomotion; nobody has "explained" impulse. How could we ever explain? We operate only with things which do not exist, with lines, surfaces, bodies, atoms, divisible times, divisible spaces - how can explanation ever be possible when we first make everything a conception, our conception? It is sufficient to regard science as the exactest humanizing of things that is possible; we always learn to describe ourselves more accurately by describing things and their successions. <B>Cause</B> and effect: there is probably never any such duality; in fact there is a continuum before us, from which we isolate a few portions - just as we always observe a motion as isolated points, and therefore do not properly see it, but infer it. The abruptness with which many effects take place leads us into error; it is however only an abruptness for us. There is an infinite multitude of processes in that abrupt moment which escape us. <B>An intellect which could see cause and effect as a continuum, which could see the flux of events not according to our mode of perception, as things arbitrarily separated and broken - would throw aside the conception of cause and effect, and would deny all conditionality.</B></I>Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11704331.post-33877082478476005742007-08-03T11:52:00.000-05:002007-08-03T11:52:00.000-05:00Come take it then... if you can.Do you think an at...Come take it then... if you can.<BR/><BR/>Do you think an attack now on the USA by Canada would be "wise"?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11704331.post-23147718581843491362007-08-03T11:50:00.000-05:002007-08-03T11:50:00.000-05:00...in order for the people to be "good", larry, go......in order for the people to be "good", larry, governments MUST be evil.<BR/><BR/>It's called "generation from opposites". It's a <I>fundamental</I> philosophical priciple.<BR/><BR/>Government has always been the tool of the devil. It's ALL over the Bible. I'm not saying there's a devil... I'm just saying that its' the source of all "evil"<BR/><BR/>For example: Nietzsche, "Genealogy of Morals"<BR/><BR/><I>These Germans have used terrible means to make themselves a memory in order to attain mastery over their vulgar and brutally crude basic instincts. Think of the old German punishments, for example, stoning (the legend even lets the mill stone fall on the head of the guilty person), breaking on the wheel (the unique invention and specialty of the German genius in the area of punishment!), impaling on a stake, ripping people apart or stamping them to death with horses (“quartering”), boiling the criminal in oil or wine (still done in the fourteenth and fifteenth centuries), the well-loved practice of flaying (“cutting flesh off in strips”), carving flesh out of the chest, along with, of course, covering the offender with honey and leaving him to the flies in the burning sun. <BR/><BR/>With the help of such images and procedures people finally retained five or six “I will not’s” in their memory, and so far as these precepts were concerned they gave their word in order to live with the advantages of society—and that was that! With the assistance of this sort of memory people finally came to “reason”! Ah, reason, seriousness, mastery over emotions, the whole gloomy business called reflection, all these privileges and ceremonies of human beings—how expensive they were! How much blood and horror is the basis for all “good things”! . . . </I><BR/><BR/>And I don't rationalize "FOR" evil. I understand it. i understand that JUSTICE and WISDOM are OPPOSITE principles. Justice is NOT imposing one's will upon another and using them as a means to an end. WISDOM IS imposing one's will upon another to achieve certain ends... (the "good").<BR/><BR/>Got it?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11704331.post-84345969110109328452007-08-03T11:48:00.000-05:002007-08-03T11:48:00.000-05:00Farmer John, Washington and Oregon should be ours!...Farmer John, Washington and Oregon should be ours! So should the Alaska Panhandle. The Brits sold us out. They were too scared to get into a fight with the US to defend this territory. And the Mexicans are taking back the territories that the US stole back in 1846. Yea! Viva La Raza! Kick Gringo ass!Larry Gambonehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04965037776214596919noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11704331.post-43199501066069740342007-08-03T11:42:00.000-05:002007-08-03T11:42:00.000-05:00And while it may be a "take what you can" world fo...<I>And while it may be a "take what you can" world for the sociopaths runninng our corporations and governments, people generally are not that way. Most people have some concept of ethics. Life is actualy far more difficult in the dog-eat-dog world that you apo9logize for, than a world where there is a modicum of cooperation and equality. Your ideology had its salad days at the beginning of the 20th century and was called SOcial Darwinism.</I><BR/><BR/>So much for rationalism and ethics, cooperation and equality, eh larry?<BR/><BR/>Nietzsche "Will to Power" 1067<BR/><BR/><I>...--do you want a name for this world? A solution for all its riddles? A light for you, too, you best-concealed, strongest, most intrepid, most midnightly men?-- This world is the will to power--and nothing besides! And you yourselves are also this will to power--and nothing besides!</I>Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11704331.post-48864550334936165532007-08-03T11:41:00.000-05:002007-08-03T11:41:00.000-05:00Sorry, that previous comment was for Farmer John.Sorry, that previous comment was for Farmer John.Larry Gambonehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04965037776214596919noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11704331.post-67245892589823106702007-08-03T11:40:00.000-05:002007-08-03T11:40:00.000-05:00I repeat, I am not talking about something that ha...I repeat, I am not talking about something that happened in the distant past, but actions that have gone on within living memory, and in then case of the West Bank settlements, right now.<BR/><BR/>Your views are a-moral - “might makes right” - if you can steal it and hold it, it is yours. This concept went out of favor a long time ago. Why do you think the Iraq War was rationalized with a lot of blather about democracy and liberation, and not an open “We want to grab Iraq to control the oil.” ? Why was WW1 fought “to liberate Little Belgium” and “for democracy” and not simply to preserve the British Empire against German competition? Why was the Boer War fought “to resist Boer aggression” and not to grab the gold mines of the Transvaal? The answer is simple – the vast majority of people consider wars of conquest immoral.<BR/><BR/>Since it is a matter of ethics which divides us, rather than data as such, I see little point in continuing this discussion.<BR/><BR/>One final observation, Unlike the wretched beak, you are obviously a person of some education, but this only allows you to be more sophisticated in your rationalizations of evil. Here in Canada, aside from a tiny handful of reactionary intellectuals, the political company you keep with your contempt of the First Nations people is of the most ignorant, degraded and uneducated sector of the “white” population.Larry Gambonehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04965037776214596919noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11704331.post-26287384725908920292007-08-03T11:33:00.000-05:002007-08-03T11:33:00.000-05:00Even Hugo Chavez is pushing old land-dispute claim...Even <A HREF="http://www.cidcm.umd.edu/pic/initiatives/guyana-venezuela/guyana~1.pdf" REL="nofollow">Hugo Chavez</A> is pushing old land-dispute claims... got oil?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11704331.post-57856138096080774032007-08-03T11:26:00.000-05:002007-08-03T11:26:00.000-05:00...because we all know that Polk was a seditious L......because we all know that Polk was a seditious Limey-Lover who settled on a boundary between Canada and the US at the 49th parallel following the receipt of a British bribe from Lord Aberdeen. ;-)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com