tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11704331.post1986756594356796154..comments2023-11-05T03:12:10.925-06:00Comments on Renegade Eye: Why Marxists Cannot Support Islamic Fundamentalism – The Case of HamasFrank Partisanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03536211653082893030noreply@blogger.comBlogger78125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11704331.post-43277062067608162062007-10-13T14:44:00.000-05:002007-10-13T14:44:00.000-05:00thanks Ren, i linked back. I'm still setting every...thanks Ren, i linked back. I'm still setting everything up. New Blogger format is easy, I just need to get the hang of it : )<BR/><BR/>No doubt that the Palestinians shouldn't be led by National Bougeois forces like Hezbollah, but we can't be dogmatic comrade I mean, struggle won't always be waged on our terms. We always gotta support struggle while realizing that revolution is the only solution. The reason is that if the Palestinians throw off the Israeli oppressors, their struggle will be made much easier.<BR/><BR/>its a shame CelticFire did that, but I'm glad you're still blogging strong and consistant.LeftyHenryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05870433011584211043noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11704331.post-19830674315517375142007-10-13T14:20:00.000-05:002007-10-13T14:20:00.000-05:00Jeff Richards wrote:"while I dont agree with the w...Jeff Richards wrote:<BR/><BR/>"while I dont agree with the world view of this article, I DO agree that Hamas is a bourgeois party."<BR/><BR/>Yeah, that's what the problem with Hamas is.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11704331.post-23204478702421370252007-10-11T23:56:00.000-05:002007-10-11T23:56:00.000-05:00I must agree with Ren's statement, "It's more comp...I must agree with Ren's statement, "<I>It's more complicated than anti-imperialism</I>." Imperialism is only one head of the exploitative hydra that we must slay. The other heads include, but are not limited to, all systems of domination and discrimination, patriarchy, racism, and religious fundamentalism of all creeds, and all trade agreements, institutions, and governments that promote an exploitative planetary capitalism.<BR/><BR/>The multitude who participate in the direct action of civil disobedience, support the people's movement, advocate resistance and promote alternatives to planetary capitalism, and organized and mobilized by a philosophy rooted in decentralization and autonomy shall slay the exploitative hydra.orthohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01475048083814392914noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11704331.post-86091733942308428652007-10-11T22:01:00.000-05:002007-10-11T22:01:00.000-05:00Lefty Henry: It's great you're back blogging. I w...Lefty Henry: It's great you're back blogging. I will link to your new blog, and look at it later.<BR/><BR/>It's more complicated than anti-imperialism. Should the Palestinians be led by Islamists and bourgeoise nationalists. I think socialists could join Fatah, to recruit people away. It's time to build class struggle leadership in Israel and Palestine.<BR/><BR/>CeticFire closed his blog, he told me it was for a security reason.Frank Partisanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03536211653082893030noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11704331.post-81694873238824599582007-10-11T21:02:00.000-05:002007-10-11T21:02:00.000-05:00See I disagree. I think that as anti-imperialists,...See I disagree. I think that as anti-imperialists, we must support all resistance to imperialism no matter weither its on our terms or not. If US imperialism is defeated in Iraq and if Israeli imperialism is defeated in Palestine, it will be a victory for the people, it'll mean no longer are they dominated, they have self-determination which often paves the road for socialism. What's most important though is that a defeat of the US in Iraq is a defeat for imperialism, it is kicking US imperialism out of a region which is desperately needs control of. If the US gains control of oil in Iraq, it'll have leverage over Venezuela and try to keep it under its boot.<BR/><BR/>I do think there are critiscisms to be made of religious national bourgeoisie forces like in Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, and Lebanon and Palestine, serious problems at that regarding woman and homosexuality for example, but it is US imperialism that is the primary enemy of the masses, and by not supporting the right to rebel of the Iraqi people we end up just supporting imperialism.<BR/><BR/>btw I'm back. check out my new blog<BR/><BR/>http://riseresistrevolt.blogspot.com/<BR/><BR/>Still working out the kinks.LeftyHenryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05870433011584211043noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11704331.post-13030605812979617602007-10-11T08:31:00.000-05:002007-10-11T08:31:00.000-05:00Politiques:You've uncovered an interesting facet t...Politiques:<BR/><BR/>You've uncovered an interesting facet to this argument by drawing attention to the authenticity of the biblical texts as historical documents. The old testament is a composite that synthesises various mythological stories from the ancient near-east such as Assyria, Akkad, Babylon, Sumer, Canaan etc.<BR/><BR/>For instance, the tale of Noah appears in the Babylonian version of the Epic of Gilgamesh when the titular hero meets Una Apishtu (the biblical Noah) who recalls the tale of the flood. <BR/><BR/>Similarly, the Enuma Elish recants the creation myth whilst the Ancient Sumerians provided the franework for the Adam/Eve saga which involves the Water deity Enki creating man in his own image from clay and blood. <BR/><BR/>The old testament/Talmud is an inauthentic document and certainly not the word of god.<BR/><BR/>Research it for yourselves, or avoid the truth and delude yourselves.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11704331.post-66570045638729099602007-10-11T08:15:00.000-05:002007-10-11T08:15:00.000-05:00I hear the bleating of a wounded lamb yet again......I hear the bleating of a wounded lamb yet again...<BR/><BR/>Do you have supporting evidence MZ, as provided by Graeme, or shall we just take your word for it?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11704331.post-54354137606851600672007-10-11T07:25:00.000-05:002007-10-11T07:25:00.000-05:00Graeme, it's amazing how people driven by a prejud...Graeme, it's amazing how people driven by a prejudice will believe anything they read that supports their preconceived notions. You have fallen into the trap.<BR/><BR/>Having personally walked through Hazakias Caves in Israel, the fort which was built to protect the first temple from the Assyrians in the 8th century BCE, I can assure you that the first kingdom of Judea was a fact not a myth.<BR/><BR/>Of course, you and others will continue to believe whatever propaganda you can find to fit neatly into your bias. Your motive is clear: validate the arabs because it will better advance your political perspective if the Jews are to blame for injustice while the moslems are portrayed as the victims. <BR/><BR/>Enjoy the illusion, Arafat certainly did while he denied the historical existence of the first and second Temples, and make sure to stay well insulated in your little bubble so as not to get confused by all the contradictory evidence.<BR/><BR/>Just be sure to take something strong to sleep at night; you'll need it.Mad Zionisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02368389951636950238noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11704331.post-58474715546623519532007-10-11T02:58:00.000-05:002007-10-11T02:58:00.000-05:00Too many people think that their religion is also ...Too many people think that their religion is also their culture and this is how they go down intellectually. With these people it seems like there was nothing in this world before religion.<BR/> <BR/>Does anyone know anything about the assyrian tablets? It was written before the Bible (although the 1st Bible was in Aramaic) and Assyria was not very far from Palestine back then (around 4500 BC) and it was the common language from all these people living over there. The Bible even said that back then there was only 1 language.steven rixhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18154964357134050639noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11704331.post-64815846714319147112007-10-11T02:09:00.000-05:002007-10-11T02:09:00.000-05:00This is only somewhat relevant, but i wrote this a...This is only somewhat relevant, but i wrote this awhile back when discussing Palestinian identity.the evidence suggests that the Arabs are in the right, and the Jews are in the wrong. Of course, so were the first settlers in America, and I still live there, so I am not suggesting that Israel should be disbanded or anything like that:<BR/><BR/>The first Israelis were Europeans, that had no connection to the land. As far as historical connection, the book "The Bible Unearthed" by Israel Finkelstein and Neil Asher Silberman destroys the myth of ancient Israel as described in the Old Testament. There is zero archaeological evidence for the Exodus (the leader Moses: complete nonsense), David and Soloman's united rule or Joshua's conquest of Canaan.<BR/><BR/>Michael Neumann sums up their claims (i have no link, I am typing it straight from the book. I haven't read all of The bible unearthed yet, but I have finished Neumann's the case against Israel) Regarding the borders of ancient Israel as outlined in the book of Joshua:<BR/><BR/><I>"They find [Finkelstein and Silberman] that the "great" Jewish Kingdoms existed in something like their fabled extent for a tiny fraction of the period traditionally alleged [835-800 B.C.E.]. Even then their borders never came close to the "greater Israel" of contemporary Jewish fundamentalism. The rest of the time, Judah and Israel are thought to have been, for the most part, very primitive entities, devoid of literate culture of substantial administrative structure, extending to only a small, landlocked part of what is now called Palestine. The great structures of the Biblical era are, all of them, attributed to Canaanite cultures. Moreover, the inhabitants of Biblical Israel and Judah seem to have been, for most of the time and for most part, practitioners of Canaanite religions rather than Judaism, or of various syncretic cults. These "Israelites" were not, that is, "Jewish" in one important sense of the term. The authors refer to the Biblical Kingdom at its greatest extent as "a multiethnic society." The idea such a past could validate a Jewish historical claim to Palestine is simply ludicrous, even if it could be shown- which it can't- that today's Jews are in some legal sense, heirs to the ancient Israeli kingdoms."</I><BR/><BR/>So the historical claim is nonsense- that leaves us with a simple take over. Much the same way the US was formed (except the Israelis weren't as brutal as the early Americans).<BR/><BR/>For the record, I think the best solution is one state solution with equal rights for all. I, however, think that the most practical is a two state solution based on the internationally recognized borders of 1967. I believe Hamas has even agreed to this, so once again the US and Israel are blocking any real peace.Graemehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04230080850680753260noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11704331.post-43075336016655407632007-10-10T18:47:00.000-05:002007-10-10T18:47:00.000-05:00That's the only plausible thing I've ever heard yo...That's the only plausible thing I've ever heard you say, Princess Beamish.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11704331.post-56573997257574872152007-10-10T15:45:00.000-05:002007-10-10T15:45:00.000-05:00The word verification code has a time limit (I don...The word verification code has a time limit (I don't know how long) before it expires. If you take a long time composing a post in the comment window before submitting, you may have to submit again with the new code.(((Thought Criminal)))https://www.blogger.com/profile/17311656184275255223noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11704331.post-37069171797037284592007-10-10T14:27:00.000-05:002007-10-10T14:27:00.000-05:00Tsk tsk you are putting words in my mouth MZ.Tsk tsk you are putting words in my mouth MZ.steven rixhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18154964357134050639noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11704331.post-74171799130153431282007-10-10T09:02:00.000-05:002007-10-10T09:02:00.000-05:00PU, I'm thinking maybe LSD is in play. Your inane...PU, I'm thinking maybe LSD is in play. Your inane psychodelic musings do not blur the obvious for those of us with fully functioning minds. People like yourself, who excuse criminal behavior while blaming the victims equally for the crime, are the cause of more innocent blood being shed than any other influence.Mad Zionisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02368389951636950238noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11704331.post-2743779459879373092007-10-10T01:33:00.000-05:002007-10-10T01:33:00.000-05:00Ren, why is it such a hassle to use your blog syst...<I> Ren, why is it such a hassle to use your blog system... <BR/>I always have to put the code letters in twice. </I> By Slave Revolt<BR/>Same here, but it's the best way to fight against spams.steven rixhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18154964357134050639noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11704331.post-27491639115163490122007-10-10T01:28:00.000-05:002007-10-10T01:28:00.000-05:00These are question marks since you are stimulating...These are question marks since you are stimulating an interrogation in my mind. I honestly have to tell you that you made me think, which is good. Nevertheless we don't share the same philosophy: you rationalize your opinion in plagiarizing irrationality for the rest of them, that is not a noble cause in my opinion. People fight for other causes, and you want to fight so that you can have peace. That does not make you innocent, you can't protect if you don't respect a certain degree of criteria or laws or ethics or morals, it is just a subterfuge to alleviate your guilt trip.<BR/>Again you can't generalize categorically in just one simple sentence "Protecting the innocent by defeating the thugs who wish to kill them" it is impossible at a philosophical level to reason this way, obviously you have lots of learning to do when it comes to rationalize your thought, and yes it us pure madness or denial, either way, it is not good for the mind, that is for sure. You may mean no harm by stipulating this way, you are a mad zionist after all :-) I understand we are on a blog that deals with uncommon thought, but you can't defeat the islamist myth in thinking this way: the sons of Allah always revenge their fathers because nobody should be humiliated in front of Allah. It seems like we are in an endless war on both sides.<BR/> <BR/>Define:<BR/>- who is innocent?<BR/>- who are the thugs?<BR/>- under which authority can you lay down your thoughts? T<BR/>- and what is truth?<BR/><BR/>Philosophy is just a trade of ideas, but you have to go very deep and in details in your thoughts before categorizing the humanity in 1 sentence.steven rixhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18154964357134050639noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11704331.post-49017314922310360982007-10-09T23:16:00.000-05:002007-10-09T23:16:00.000-05:00And you think it would make you better than the re...<I>And you think it would make you better than the rest of them?</I> <BR/><BR/>Huh? Is this a joke? Protecting the innocent by defeating the thugs who wish to kill them is somehow just a moral equivalence to you? I feel bad for you if you're being serious.<BR/><BR/><I>Can't your existence be justified for other purposes?</I><BR/><BR/>Drunken babble? Sleep deprivation? Heroin? Insanity? All of the above? Come on...these comments deserve no respect or thoughtful responses.Mad Zionisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02368389951636950238noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11704331.post-9770967707095109622007-10-09T22:54:00.000-05:002007-10-09T22:54:00.000-05:00Regarding your off topic comments, you misundersta...<I> Regarding your off topic comments, you misunderstand my motivation for war. I wish to crush movements who seek to kill or enslave people that don't believe as they say. This isn't blood lust, it is the desire to end the bloodshed of the innocent by completely defeating the thugs who are persecuting them. </I><BR/>And you think it would make you better than the rest of them? Can't your existence be justified for other purposes?steven rixhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18154964357134050639noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11704331.post-72565206670558680392007-10-09T21:39:00.000-05:002007-10-09T21:39:00.000-05:00Mad Zionist: When I hear the term "The Left," I ru...Mad Zionist: When I hear the term "The Left," I run for cover. If you talk about "The Right," you could be talking about Giuliani, McCain, Pinochet, Luis Posada, etc. If your talking about the left, it could include certain Zionists, Green Party members, anarchists, Weatherman etc. That leaves me to only be able to talk about the Trotskyist left.<BR/><BR/>My vision for Israel is different than yours. Mine includes European Jews realizing Zionism can't keep them safe, as Islamists and nationalists can't help Palestinians.<BR/><BR/>I think my position, just by the comments, are outside conventional left thought.<BR/><BR/>I hope other leftists will answer. My position is unconventional.Frank Partisanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03536211653082893030noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11704331.post-56273285753978397922007-10-09T21:16:00.000-05:002007-10-09T21:16:00.000-05:00Ren, why would calling for the execution of a wick...Ren, why would calling for the execution of a wicked tyrant who's ethnically cleansed his own people get you lynched? Further more, why do you suggest I yearn for biblical war? I desire peace at all costs, and that means I am willing to advocate total war where necessary to achieve it. <BR/><BR/>Also, why did you change the subject to my blog rather than responding to the points I've made on topic at your own blog. Have you no rebuttals to my points? Did I stump you, or leave you questioning your own arguments? Seriously, I am curious why you diverted instead of engaged.<BR/><BR/>Regarding your off topic comments, you misunderstand my motivation for war. I wish to crush movements who seek to kill or enslave people that don't believe as they say. This isn't blood lust, it is the desire to end the bloodshed of the innocent by completely defeating the thugs who are persecuting them.<BR/><BR/>Hope that cleared things up for you.Mad Zionisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02368389951636950238noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11704331.post-17983614966975388892007-10-09T20:52:00.000-05:002007-10-09T20:52:00.000-05:00Happy Revolutionary: Thank you for visiting my blo...Happy Revolutionary: Thank you for visiting my blog. I will visit yours tonight.<BR/><BR/>I think recommending Hamas as leadership for Palestinians, is irresponsible. That has nothing to do with their election victory reversed. They have a case on that issue, that doesn't mean they are a good alternative. Palestinians voted against Fatah's corruption, not for Islamism.<BR/><BR/>Anyone on the left support Islamism? SWP (UK) comes close.<BR/><BR/>I support national liberation as a democratic demand. I don't support the Maoist and other Stalinist's concept of two stage revolution, or as mao calls it "New Democracy." National revolution must be accompanied by socialist revolution, or it ends up with new bosses. The whole state apparatus of the old order needs to be destroyed. Like with Israel and Palestine, how could water rights be negotiated without socialism?<BR/><BR/>Slave Revolt: You brought up a common blogger problem.<BR/><BR/>Stalin represented a conservative power take in USSR. He played only a minor role in the Russian Revolution. Zinoviev and Kamenov actually opposed the Russian Revolution. They created a political bureaucracy that was priviledged. The term "state capitalist" doesn't apply, because if it was state capitalist, the first thing the capitalists would do, is assassinate Stalin.<BR/><BR/>I can see supporting Hamas on this or that issue. I don't think you should support their leadership<BR/><BR/>I don't support the nationalist Fatah group. It would be a good place, to recruit and train real socialists. The same applies to working class Zionist groups. <BR/><BR/>Mad Zionist: I feel a disconnect, when I read in your blog, advocating executions of Israeli leaders. If I wrote that I'd be lynched.<BR/><BR/>Most Israelis are secular for the most part.<BR/><BR/>I wish you'd find another cause, other than a Biblical based warfare.Frank Partisanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03536211653082893030noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11704331.post-24063747096912504892007-10-09T20:03:00.000-05:002007-10-09T20:03:00.000-05:00Ren, I've been called a lot of things by leftwinge...Ren, I've been called a lot of things by leftwingers before, but sane has never been one of them. Careful, you may have your "comrade card" revoked if you keep this up.<BR/>You know, in all seriousness, I still don't understand why the leftists hate the Jewish settlers. They are oppressed and persecuted by the State of Israel, far more than any Arabs, while also being attacked daily by the moslems surrounding them. Meanwhile, all they want is to be left to live a peaceful communal life with their friends and family.<BR/><BR/>They should be the heroes of the left, not the pariahs. It so parallels the historical demonization of the Jews, yet nobody who has fallen into the trap seems to be able to see it.Mad Zionisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02368389951636950238noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11704331.post-77301738038457163142007-10-09T17:03:00.000-05:002007-10-09T17:03:00.000-05:00Ren, why is it such a hassel to use your blog syst...Ren, why is it such a hassel to use your blog system.<BR/><BR/>OW's is far more easy.<BR/><BR/>Just asking.<BR/><BR/><BR/>I always have to put the code letters in twice.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11704331.post-23858163961249976102007-10-09T17:02:00.000-05:002007-10-09T17:02:00.000-05:00Ren, no offense taken bro. People should be encou...Ren, no offense taken bro. People should be encouraged to substantially disagree on core issues--the sine qua non of any movement toward democracy. Contexts do matter, however.<BR/><BR/>But the major point that I would make is that judging any extremism coming from Hamas has to be done in the context of the relentless, decades-long occupation.<BR/><BR/>Just like I don't agree with Al Sadar's theology--but I am allied in that I hope they resist and thwart the planned-for occupation of Iraq.<BR/><BR/>We have enough fanaticism coming from the people running the show in the US to focus on. This is not to say that one cannot reject elements of any religion's theology--but harping on it, when your nation is occupying and oppressing different cultures, this seems smarmy and disingenous.<BR/><BR/>More, am a left-liberatarian, but I don't recall Chomsky saying what you said he did. It seems obvious that leftism was defeated with authoritarian rule that allowed a new prviledged elite to develop in the Soviet Union. The workers were expected to slave while party elites enjoyed perks. That is not very 'socialist' in my book.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11704331.post-33203793737565889902007-10-09T16:54:00.000-05:002007-10-09T16:54:00.000-05:00But who on the Left is truly 'supporting' Islamic ...But who on the Left is truly 'supporting' Islamic fundamentalism? This smells like a rightist strawman.<BR/>Also, when do you think it would be strategically useful to support a nationalist uprising? What about Vietnam, or Algeria?thrhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14877037272249708164noreply@blogger.com