tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11704331.post1839552718314677365..comments2023-11-05T03:12:10.925-06:00Comments on Renegade Eye: In Response To The Democratic Party Politicians: Afghanistan The Good War??Frank Partisanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03536211653082893030noreply@blogger.comBlogger104125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11704331.post-80648890342846575112007-09-01T06:43:00.000-05:002007-09-01T06:43:00.000-05:00The discussion above is quite ironic. Western left...The discussion above is quite ironic. Western leftists are denouncing the present Ethiopian government, which began as a Communist guerrilla movement, for killing Muslim religious fanatics...<BR/><BR/>Ren, there is an interesting discussion about you on <A HREF="http://sonia-belle.blogspot.com/2007/08/quote-of-day-2007-08-22.html#c4752169429802681669" REL="nofollow">this thread</A>...soniahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00938174968325568608noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11704331.post-83658356771025218552007-08-31T18:40:00.000-05:002007-08-31T18:40:00.000-05:00...and all this time I thought I was exposing thei......and all this time I thought I was exposing their cultural methods... rape... hostage taking... <I>my bad</I> ;-)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11704331.post-79405948509486084872007-08-31T12:56:00.000-05:002007-08-31T12:56:00.000-05:00BeamishSeems to me if Bush had changed his party a...Beamish<BR/><I>Seems to me if Bush had changed his party affiliation to Democrat upon taking the oath of office the first time, the left would be out selling the Iraq War as the greatest thing since Arthur pulled the sword from the stone.</I><BR/><BR/>But the left did try and sell it....many of them....Check out blogs like Harrys Place...<BR/><BR/>Troutsky, me old freshwater revolutionary mate<BR/><BR/><I>but most importantly an economic component (global capitalism)withit's own prophets (Adam Smith to von Hay</I><BR/><BR/>Capitalism is not an ecomic system but a mode of production...different thing....what is more important is: do these type of Islamic nihilists want economic development? I would say no..because they fear modernity more thatn anything else (something they have in common with the Green movement). <BR/><BR/>Liberal white boy<BR/><I>As a liberal white boy living in the United States of America I think perhaps my greatest fear is the expansion of Sharia Law in this country.</I><BR/><BR/>Man, you are falling into the Bush trap - i.e. - this is an IDEOLOGICAL WAR....it ain't...if it was about ideology then there would not be suicide bombers and there would not be invasions of Iraq etc...there is not ideological battle going on here at all...beatroothttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11242716221133886807noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11704331.post-8582748689517631622007-08-31T11:34:00.000-05:002007-08-31T11:34:00.000-05:00Your commentaries in your blog are always of our p...Your commentaries in your blog are always of our pleasure and we congratulate you on it, regards of your friends of Reus Catalunya SpainJobove - Reushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15325521409416734011noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11704331.post-20557540234244936112007-08-31T11:03:00.000-05:002007-08-31T11:03:00.000-05:00Crusader John, Perhaps you are nostalgic for the d...Crusader John,<BR/><BR/> Perhaps you are nostalgic for the days when it was widely thought to be our burden to tame such savage beasts? Well, there is no reason to be nostalgic, because "spreading democracy" is the new white man's burden. <BR/><BR/>How long until people like you have us building bunkers in our yards because the "MOSLEMS ARE COMMING." I wonder who will be next? Catholics maybe. The sad thing is, the Muslim leaders are doing the same thing our leaders are.Graemehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04230080850680753260noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11704331.post-18928558572329476502007-08-31T09:07:00.000-05:002007-08-31T09:07:00.000-05:00Farmer John, (you aren't Christopher Hitchens are ...Farmer John, (you aren't Christopher Hitchens are you?)No one here is arguing in favor of religious intolerance in any form but instead they are putting this "transgression" in proper context.You naively claim "economic liberalism is a voluntary proposition for all parties" which demonstrates your self imposed blinders. When you say we "excuse away Islamic Imperialism because they advance in the time old fashion of killing their opponents and raping their women instead of forcing them to buy Brittany Spears cds" you both discount the cultural methods they use (madrassas, clinics, social services) and the power of those methods and ignore the blatantly violent methods of "primitive accumulation" applied by global capitalism. (hint: look at Iraq)troutskyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16020298501632120830noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11704331.post-32456186900560040812007-08-31T08:11:00.000-05:002007-08-31T08:11:00.000-05:00You know how a Somali spells the word "fourth wife...You know how a Somali spells the word "fourth wife"? H-O-S-T-A-G-E.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11704331.post-56742203167424410712007-08-31T08:05:00.000-05:002007-08-31T08:05:00.000-05:00This is the "other" way they spread... it's tribal...<A HREF="http://www.washingtontimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070831/FOREIGN/108310072/1001&template=nextpage" REL="nofollow">This</A> is the "other" way they spread... it's <I>tribal</I>. It also pays to be able to have four wives...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11704331.post-34360283372724723752007-08-31T07:50:00.000-05:002007-08-31T07:50:00.000-05:00And there is still on pocket of Non-Islamic domina...And there is still on <A HREF="http://www.oprev.org/JulAug00/IslamMap.jpg" REL="nofollow">pocket of Non-Islamic</A> dominance left in northern Africa... and it's time graeme gave that up to them as well...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11704331.post-21679445951205056722007-08-31T07:45:00.000-05:002007-08-31T07:45:00.000-05:00...and the Somali have already been converted to I......and the Somali have already been converted to Islam in the Ogaden regions (now called Somali & is near 100% Moslem). It's where they've crossed the border into Oramia and begun rolling up the Christian & pagan Orami where the "problem" of Islamic imperialism can be observed first hand. They're still in the minority there... barely.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11704331.post-80847489097833419722007-08-31T07:33:00.000-05:002007-08-31T07:33:00.000-05:00graeme,Go ahead and excuse away Islamic Imperialis...graeme,<BR/><BR/>Go ahead and excuse away Islamic Imperialism because they advance in the time old fashion of killing their opponents and raping their women instead of forcing them to buy Brittany Spears CDs. After all, we all have our own aesthetics standards for acceptable human conduct.<BR/><BR/>And the next time you fly into Minneapolis and the Somali cab driver refuses to pick you up because you have a bottle of Jack Daniels in you hand or your pet dog Fifi in her travelling case, just remember the 'greater cause' for which you've argued.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11704331.post-41197690948406585792007-08-31T07:20:00.000-05:002007-08-31T07:20:00.000-05:00I hope I'm not mocking any Muslims (Moslems is kin...I hope I'm not mocking any Muslims (Moslems is kinda sic, too, heh?), but I just came across this bit below which I figure will send send some of you out to be consumers of capitalist goods:<BR/><BR/>Permanent Revolution is the title for ska band Catch 22's fourth studio album, released on June 27, 2006. The album can be classified as a concept album, centered around the life of Leon Trotsky (1879 - 1940), with the title being named after a theorum that Trotsky had been associated with called Permanent Revolution.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11704331.post-14833251300577560782007-08-31T07:15:00.000-05:002007-08-31T07:15:00.000-05:00You are pretty good at reframing these discussions...You are pretty good at reframing these discussions mz, but I'm sure you know that what I regarded as silly is that this is a threat to me. I'm sure the average Muslim is far more offended by our governments support for the creation of Israel (land theft I) and subsequent attempt to steal the remainder of Palestine (land theft II) than any thoughts I may have about their religion. You and I both know of course that our western religious mythologies (Old Testament and New Testament) are far superior to any thing the Muslims have.liberal white boyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02516512401414441594noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11704331.post-58878913814958264672007-08-30T23:54:00.000-05:002007-08-30T23:54:00.000-05:00LWB, why would you call Sharia Law expansion silly...LWB, why would you call Sharia Law expansion silly? Do you realize how many moslems around the world would be incredibly offended by such an insensitive and insulting comment? Try and realize that moslems are not likely to appreciate being mocked.Mad Zionisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02368389951636950238noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11704331.post-41130894228060345532007-08-30T23:26:00.000-05:002007-08-30T23:26:00.000-05:00Graeme. the current president of Ethiopia is an Or...<I>Graeme. the current president of Ethiopia is an Oromo. Why would he block aid to the Oromo</I><BR/><BR/>They are blocking aid to the Ogaden region, not Oromo. That is what I wrote.<BR/><BR/>Mad Zionist and Farmer john, I think you guys are sincere in your belief that "moslems" live under our beds and in our closets, ready to kill us at any moment, but it is not reality. I've already seen this movie, and in my lifetime I am sure I will see another bogeyman.Graemehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04230080850680753260noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11704331.post-9553994133454910852007-08-30T21:27:00.000-05:002007-08-30T21:27:00.000-05:00Thanks Renegade for this good analysisPeace,BenThanks Renegade for this good analysis<BR/>Peace,<BR/>BenBen Heinehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13218916495966241875noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11704331.post-19234617133481988672007-08-30T20:43:00.000-05:002007-08-30T20:43:00.000-05:00Graeme. the current president of Ethiopia is an O...Graeme. the current president of Ethiopia is an Oromo. Why would he block aid to the Oromo (who occupy the very center of the country and link ALL the regions together? He's fighting off even <A HREF="http://www.mg.co.za/articlepage.aspx?area=/breaking_news/breaking_news__africa/&articleid=294811" REL="nofollow">MORE Moslem incursion</A> by the Somali, who occupy the arid eastern portion of the country and who are attempting to migrate inland and displace even more Oromo Christians with help from there ethnic AND Islamic brothers from the ICU and Somalia.<BR/><BR/>You know those Moslems. If they aren't living under Shari'a, they've just GOT to <A HREF="http://allafrica.com/stories/200708170029.html" REL="nofollow">overthrow</A> the government <A HREF="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oromo_Liberation_Front" REL="nofollow">(OLF)</A>. And that's precisely what they're doing. The "refugee's" in the US... yep, Moslems. No wonder they're bitchin'. They can go pound sand with they're "human rights violations". Human rights are things that only Christian and secular nations observe.<BR/><BR/>From Wikipedia: <I>The OLF's anti-terrorism policy on civilians is widely supported and recommended by all Ethiopians. However the destabilizing and violent military acts of OLF against Ethiopian governments and individual state governments have been condemned by both Ethiopians and the international community. Also the OLF have killed many innocent Kenyan citizens as they move back and forth from the Ethiopian to Kenyan borders. The Institute for Security Studies stated that, "Changes in target selection has led to the assessment that OLF transformed from a revolutionary movement into a terrorist movement."[41] They have had various conflicts with the Kenyan security forces. In one case, they shot dead two Kenyan women in their sleep.[42] The critics of OLF often go back to the offer made by the Ethiopian government to OLF to join the Ethiopian parliament in 1992. The other issue raised is OLF's cooperation with the alleged enemies of Ethiopia including the current Eritrean government which also supports the Islamic courts of Somalia. The Islamic courts of Somalia has been known to burn Ethiopian flags, and have declared a jihad against Ethiopians[43] and plans to establish an Islamic republic in Ethiopia.</I>Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11704331.post-37454098626387733672007-08-30T20:38:00.000-05:002007-08-30T20:38:00.000-05:00As a liberal white boy living in the United States...As a liberal white boy living in the United States of America I think perhaps my greatest fear is the expansion of Sharia Law in this country. I have been hearing this concern a lot lately. Each time I hear it sounds as silly as the last time I heard it. Is some one trying to perpetuate another fraud upon us. MZ, I'm still trying to digest the last fraud. Palestine was a land without a people.liberal white boyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02516512401414441594noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11704331.post-42009553300349200872007-08-30T20:02:00.000-05:002007-08-30T20:02:00.000-05:00Islam is spreading in Africa?Nah, it's just my ima...Islam is spreading in <A HREF="http://www.oprev.org/JulAug00/IslamMap.jpg" REL="nofollow">Africa</A>?<BR/><BR/>Nah, it's just my imagination...<BR/><BR/>And troutsky, economic liberalism is a voluntary proposition for all parties. The spread of Islam is not. It's Mo's way, or you die. See the diff, yet?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11704331.post-16350024258363913852007-08-30T18:40:00.000-05:002007-08-30T18:40:00.000-05:00Since the global jihad is only made up of a handfu...<I>Since the global jihad is only made up of a handful of Muslims (although a growing handful), I would favor law enforcement and diplomacy to deal with it.</I><BR/><BR/>Assuming your statistics are verifiable, and there really is only four or five moslems in the world who have declared jihad against the infidel, what should be done to stop them? Clearly these 4 or 5 moslems have been creating incredible destruction and havic, so how will you stop them? Are you thinking dialogue will reason them out of their jihad? Would you take official military action or state police action to physically stop or kill them?<BR/><BR/>Seriously, how will you do it?Mad Zionisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02368389951636950238noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11704331.post-14468072182483298352007-08-30T13:33:00.000-05:002007-08-30T13:33:00.000-05:00The hatred of Bush is so visceral among liberals, ...The hatred of Bush is so visceral among liberals, that he could bring back the New Deal, and they'd be against it. He is hated in every country in the world, except for parts of New Europe.<BR/><BR/>Posted by Renegade Eye | 30 August, 2007 12:27 <BR/><BR/>That is exactly right. If Democrats had proposed Bush's medical program-the same ones Democrats bitch about now-and did it the exact same way he did it, liberals would be saying it was the best thing sex sex.<BR/><BR/>The Democratic Party is really one majorly fucked up party. I'm sick to death of them.<BR/><BR/>I disagree about the Afghanistan War, though. It was more than reasonable to dislodge the Taliban. We had every right to get rid of them. It was completely justified. <BR/><BR/>The problem is, Bush fucked it up by diverting resources to Iraq. He should have concentrated on Afghanistan, which should have, and could have been a model democracy by now.SecondComingOfBasthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03336586430250490679noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11704331.post-32730639847404196392007-08-30T13:30:00.000-05:002007-08-30T13:30:00.000-05:00Would you be willing to use force to stop islamic ...<I>Would you be willing to use force to stop islamic imperialism and global jihad? If not, how would you confront this enormous problem?</I><BR/><BR/>Since the global jihad is only made up of a handful of Muslims (although a growing handful), I would favor law enforcement and diplomacy to deal with it. That, I suppose, is a form of "force." As far as military force, which I suspect you are talking about, I completely am opposed to. Not only because it is counterproductive, i.e., it creates more terrorists than we had to begin with, but also because I think the U.S. is using combating global jihad much in the same way it used fighting communism, namely to spread dominance. <BR/><BR/>Troutsky brings up a good point. Many support resistance to the U.S. for reasons other than Islamic fundamentalism.Graemehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04230080850680753260noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11704331.post-92089589037639977352007-08-30T12:27:00.000-05:002007-08-30T12:27:00.000-05:00Beamish: Not even Laborite Tony Blair could win pe...Beamish: Not even Laborite Tony Blair could win people to support the Iraq war. The invasion of Iraq was supported by Bill Clinton.<BR/><BR/>All of the major Democratic Party voted to authorize the Iraq war. To their shame, the more vigorous debate took place amongst Republicans.<BR/><BR/>If the Democrats led the war, the initial support might have been higher, but over time it would have lost support. The Vietnam war was a Democratic Party war.<BR/><BR/>The hatred of Bush is so visceral among liberals, that he could bring back the New Deal, and they'd be against it. He is hated in every country in the world, except for parts of New Europe.Frank Partisanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03536211653082893030noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11704331.post-41381115336377139222007-08-30T12:03:00.000-05:002007-08-30T12:03:00.000-05:00The Mad Zionist wishes to place limits and impose ...The Mad Zionist wishes to place limits and impose sideboards on the discourse,creating his own frame.Otherwise this is an interesting debate.<BR/><BR/>I wonder if the "honorable opposition" could see this from a Muslim perspective whereby the imperatives of neoliberal economic hegemony,(since you don't like imperialism or neo-colonialism) with it's unquenchable thirst for energy,markets, labor and resources is percieved as a "caliphate" marching throught the late twentieth and now twenyfirst century? It has it's own religious component (Christian),a cultural component,(hedonistic consumerism), an ideological component (portrayed as liberal "democracy")but most importantly an economic component (global capitalism)withit's own prophets (Adam Smith to von Hayeck to Friedman etc)? Can you see how this more nuanced portrayal might be threatening to the masses of the Muslim world and exploited by a small contingent of extremists? Can you give the Muslim mind enough credit to be more than one dimensional (ie, religious)? Can you give them credit for having some historical memory,for remembering recent and late attempts to establish control over oil?<BR/><BR/>Of course "force" might be one tactic necessary to stop jihad or other assaults on peoples right to self determination but such instances must be measured and a much broader strategy of sharing wealth and power, real justice,(as in Latin America) must be employed.troutskyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16020298501632120830noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11704331.post-63751162519638224732007-08-30T07:55:00.000-05:002007-08-30T07:55:00.000-05:00Graeme, I am pleased to see that you are in favor ...Graeme, I am pleased to see that you are in favor of actively supporting the overthrow of islamic governments throughout the world. I share share your loathing for islamic tyranny and sharia law.<BR/><BR/>That said, you didn't answer my question. <BR/><BR/>To repeat: How would you suggest stopping islamic states and organizations that are committed to the expansion of Sharia Law - a part of islam you are vehemently and outwardly opposed to? Would you be willing to use force to stop islamic imperialism and global jihad? If not, how would you confront this enormous problem?<BR/><BR/>Again, thank you for not referring to other ideologies or governments and keeping this in the specific context I asked the question.Mad Zionisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02368389951636950238noreply@blogger.com